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No HT with GW 464


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I am very new to candle making, so please bear with me (and speak to me using layman's terms! Lol!) I am using GW 464, melting to 185, adding 6% FO, stirring for 2 full minutes, pouring anywhere between 135-145 and curing for a minimum of 3 days. CT is always great, but HT not so much. I've tried various oils from different companies. For the most part, I'm using 8 oz jelly jars and ECO 14 wicks. Any advice? (without adding paraffin) Thank you in advance! :)

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I use 464 and for the jelly jars use a cd 8 or cd 10 with a cure time of (2 WEEKS)  3 days is not any cure time.  Don't know anything about the ecos.

What oils are you using and where from?  Some oils are not compatible with waxes too.

 

Trappeur

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An eco 14 in a smallish vessel like a jelly jar is too much wick for 464 in my experience. By the middle of the jar it will become extremely hot. 

 

To echo the above responses, 464 needs a much longer cure to perform. 

 

I would wick down. If using eco, I would start my testing with an eco 4 or 6 if the jelly jar is about 2.5” wide in the current 464 with no other additives.

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On 2/13/2018 at 10:09 AM, Trappeur said:

I use 464 and for the jelly jars use a cd 8 or cd 10 with a cure time of (2 WEEKS)  3 days is not any cure time.  Don't know anything about the ecos.

What oils are you using and where from?  Some oils are not compatible with waxes too.

 

Trappeur

I looked all over the place to find out what the best cure time was, and the most common answer I found was "at least 48 hours". I did see in a forum somewhere that, like you, someone had the best success at 2 weeks. I'll definitely try that. I have oils from The Flaming Candle, Candlemaker's Store, the Etsy store where I ordered my starter kit (The Place 4 Candles) and a couple from my local Pat Catan's because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for an order lol! I did make sure that they were all specifically for candles. I'm not too educated on the oils, tho, and don't know how to find out which ones work best with soy, unless that's just a matter of trial and error. What percentage of FO do you typically add? I'm very, very new to this and am trying to learn as much as I can, but there is so much conflicting information out there. I figured I'd try my luck here and come straight to people who have actually had success making candles. Thank you for your time!

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Everything I was reading online was telling me "at least 48 hours". I have yet to find a reliable source of information out there anywhere, so I figured this was my best option. The wicks I have are what came with my starter kit. I did look on the ECO website and this size jar was at the low end of the size range, so I had a feeling it was too big. I'll definitely order some smaller wicks. So if I do that and wait at least 2 weeks, hopefully I'll be ok. What percentage of FO do you recommend? I tried 6% in all the candles I had made up to this point, but yesterday I tried a pint size mason jar with 8%. We shall see. Speaking of which, do you think the ECO 14's are good for that size jar? Thank you so much for taking time out to help me! I really appreciate it.

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Eco 14 in that wax is very large for almost all fragrances. The 464 wax melts very easily, which means you will have a wide and deep melt pool fairly quickly. The deeper the melt pool the worse your hot throw will be for several reasons:

- the temperature of the melt pool will drop as it grows, changing the air and wax currents preventing them from being able to throw the combusted wax and fragrance into the air

-thenflame of and eco14 gets very tall, scary tall if not trimmed even in the right size vessel.

- the deeper the melt pool gets the greater the chance that your wick will begin to sag under the surface , making it look like the flame is drowning out. It can even make the wick tip into the melt pool extinguishing it. Less is more!

 

An 8 oz jelly jar is pretty narrow. From memory it is narrower than 3”. I would start with an eco 6 or 8 depending on your fragrance and wax lot. Every box of soy wax,  464 being no exception,  is slightly different, so you’ll need to learn how your wax performs so you can tell when something is going wrong. 

 

Curing Is important for a few reasons. Soy wax crystallizes over time. While the candle will most likely be cooled after 48 hours, it has not completed its internal structuring of the crystals. The burn may not be able to  scent. Plus, there’s molecular water that will be drying out over time. The wax will become harder and better structured at a microscopic level, which all helps you create a stellar candle. You will find if you make two candles that the way one burns and throws at two days is often very different from one you burn at two weeks. 5is is not a craft for the imataient, I’m afraid. 

 

And fragrances.... oh boy fragrances... every soy wax maker will tell you the same thing: they are all hit or miss with soy wax. It is a fact of life. Dig in and be patient.

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17 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Eco 14 in that wax is very large for almost all fragrances. The 464 wax melts very easily, which means you will have a wide and deep melt pool fairly quickly. The deeper the melt pool the worse your hot throw will be for several reasons:

- the temperature of the melt pool will drop as it grows, changing the air and wax currents preventing them from being able to throw the combusted wax and fragrance into the air

-thenflame of and eco14 gets very tall, scary tall if not trimmed even in the right size vessel.

- the deeper the melt pool gets the greater the chance that your wick will begin to sag under the surface , making it look like the flame is drowning out. It can even make the wick tip into the melt pool extinguishing it. Less is more!

 

An 8 oz jelly jar is pretty narrow. From memory it is narrower than 3”. I would start with an eco 6 or 8 depending on your fragrance and wax lot. Every box of soy wax,  464 being no exception,  is slightly different, so you’ll need to learn how your wax performs so you can tell when something is going wrong. 

 

Curing Is important for a few reasons. Soy wax crystallizes over time. While the candle will most likely be cooled after 48 hours, it has not completed its internal structuring of the crystals. The burn may not be able to  scent. Plus, there’s molecular water that will be drying out over time. The wax will become harder and better structured at a microscopic level, which all helps you create a stellar candle. You will find if you make two candles that the way one burns and throws at two days is often very different from one you burn at two weeks. 5is is not a craft for the imataient, I’m afraid. 

 

And fragrances.... oh boy fragrances... every soy wax maker will tell you the same thing: they are all hit or miss with soy wax. It is a fact of life. Dig in and be patient.

Wow, thank you so very much for all of that information! I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain all of this to me. I'll be taking some notes from your reply, for sure! Lol! I'm pretty patient in this area, so hopefully I'll be ok. I did read that, while soy wax itself is easy to work with, fragrance can be a little tricky. I definitely want to stick with soy, tho, so I'll keep chugging along! I had a feeling there was a lot more to the wicks that I didn't know, but I was having trouble finding some good information on the subject. Not even from the ECO people themselves. I'll get it figured out eventually. I knew going into this that I wasn't going to be an overnight success and, so far, I've done a lot better than I expected I would. The hot throw is the only area where I seem to be having trouble and I believe that with the information I got today from you wonderful people, I may be well on my way to making some beautifully scented candles. I'm currently only making them for myself, and my family and friends, so they don't need to be perfect. :D 

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On 2/15/2018 at 2:09 PM, LitUp said:

Different fragrances also take different cure times I've found. Some they have incredible le throw after a few days, other will take 2-3 weeks before they have a good cold/hot throw.

Am I ok with 6% FO and added at 185 degrees? I had initially read that it should be added at a lower temp, but then saw in several different places that for this exact wax, it should be 185. And I wasn't sure if 6% was good enough, because from what I've seen that's the bottom of the range. I wanted to start there tho, because I didn't want to waste my FO. I made a couple new ones with my pint size mason jars (since my wicks are too big for the jelly jars) and 8% just to see how they turn out. And I'll definitely wait 2 weeks this time! :D 

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I'm doing my best to figure out 464 as well. Just this morning I lit a candle I poured 3 months ago (that I had written off after its 2 week cure when I wasn't happy with the HT) and it literally filled the room and smelled amazing. Best HT I've gotten out of any of my tests. It was apple harvest from CS at 6%. But 3 months?! *sigh*

 

So I'm curious.. does anyone here get a *really good* hot throw in 464 with a 2 week cure? Is it actually possible?

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My current hyhypothesis is the cases of wax we are getting now are unusually fresh cases of soy. Time allows some of the natural moisture to evaporate leaving a wax that is capable of burning better. 

 

this could help explain why the the process of “tempering” works well for many people. The wax warms to, and is held at a temperature which allows molecular moisture to more fully evaporate before being slowly cooled in the melting pot. The second melt evaporates even more. This heat/reheat  could be creating a better, more regular network of wax crystals without excess molecular water distorting the development. . 

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  I need some help please, I have a customer  that purchaser a couple candles about 2 months ego she said that she left the candles  uncover for almost a month and half and when she burn them they had no smell, The fragrance was Lilac from CS Lilac & Cinnamon buns

from NG I use C3  & i do know that both off those scents do throw very good. and agood seller Is it passable because she left them open the scent to evaporate 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, erinlouise said:

@TallTayl that's very interesting! I may give tempering a try to see if there's any difference in HT at the 2 week mark. Thanks for sharing your theory. :)

I can’t take credit for tempering, as it’s something I came across here a while back. Some say the process is bunk. I think there’s something more to it. 

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