Lighten Up Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 ... I mean really, who do you wick for- people that trim or don't trim? People that burn the appropriate amount of time? People that follow the instructions? People that burn all the way to the edge of the jar? People who have no clue? Testing this year's soy has(for the most part) given me the choice of 2 wicks that are adequate. My tendency is to go with the cooler burning one, even if I get a burn that struggles, but catches up the next burn. I also like to wick for the bottom third of the jar. I am finding that most people do not trim their wicks at all, I even had one person refuse to trim, if you can believe that. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Once you learn your customers you get all that info.... what i mean is .... I use tins. Some customers return tins for refill. I notice NONE of them put a timer on candles to extinguish at the exact right number of hours. They light and forget. They expect the candle to be fine. Even though I tell them, and put it on labels, I can pretty much guarantee none trim the wicks every time they light. often they don't trim before the first light. they expect it to just be ready to go. I look for a wick combo that will burn safely under the worst conditions, and perform well enough to satisfy typical customer expectation under the best. this means I burn the tester as directed, then powerburn follow ups. if any fail it's back to the drawing board. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I wick for the people who trim and burn a candle correctly...actually this question is debatable....If you can understand....I also very much take into the consideration of the ones who don't. For example...if I have a borderline wick for me to choose I will go for the one myself that somewhat struggles a bit but know that the melt pool diameter is going to make it on the next couple of burns with slight hangup. This is for the idiots that leave wick clippings in the jar...the ones that rediculously snuff out a candle with the lid instead of the proper way by dipping the wick into the wax and having the wick coated for the next burn...and of course the ones that never trim their wicks. And I always wick for the bottom of the jar. Now of course the ones who don't properly burn their candles most likely also blow out their candles 1/2 way into the melt pool and now you have the problem of tunneling. But we can't babysit everyone. The caution label is there for a reason. And we do the best we can do to make a beautiful scented properly made candle and most importantly a safe one. I don't know what else to say. Trappeur 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighten Up Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 I've been wicking for people who follow instructions, but I think with all this testing of the new 415, I'm going to take the opportunity to change that. Everything I've known, for the last 10 years, no longer applies with this wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighten Up Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Also, I always trim my wicks down when I lid & label. I am always curious when I see other candles with long wicks, why leave them so long?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Lighten Up said: Also, I always trim my wicks down when I lid & label. I am always curious when I see other candles with long wicks, why leave them so long?? I also pre trim mine to correct length before selling and lidding. It doesn't take anymore work or time to do that and Id rather my customer have a good burnign candle from the get go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I may be a an outlier on this topic as I changed my process on this not too long ago. I used to always wick for the 100% proper burn and hope the customers do that and I have the label to fall back on if I get any complaints. However... no one burns 100% properly. Hell, its hard enough for us to do that even testing, lol! I know NO ONE.. NOT ONE CUSTOMER who burns the right number of hours each time and who trims each time. Just doesn't happen. So, here is what I do and why. "Properly burned' and "properly wicked" candles offer a little leeway. What I mean is, a half size too small or too large and the candle will still work fine most of the time. So, I ATTEMPT to wick for regular customer habits... longer burns, less trimming, etc. Then, as long as the chosen wick(s) that passed that test also does fine with regular burn times and being trimmed each time... then its a winner. But conversely, if I find a wick that does well with proper burns and trimming... but not with power burns or lack of trimming, than I probably keep testing. Because for most customers that wick isn't going to be a good choice. I have learned (most of the time) to find a pretty good balance between the two. Look at it this way though.. what would you rather have happen if you had to choose: 1) customer complaint that not all the wax melted and left some hangup when finished.. maybe even tunneled... and you have to offer some customer service? or 2) customers power burn or don't trim. or both ... and you dont consider that... then their candle becomes incredibly unsafe and shatters, starts a fire...and so on. Yes, they didn't follow the warning and instructions, but you think that is going to make you feel better about their disaster? Or, do you think your business could recover from bad publicity like that? Perhaps. Perhaps Not. I'd rather just offer a customer an occasional replacement candle if for some reason one doesn't quite live up to expectations. But with enough testing, i honestly feel you can avoid both of these scenarios. Those are my thoughts anyway. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 @wthomas57 Do you trim your wicks to 1/4"? I leave mine at about 1/2" hoping the customer who doesn't burn long enough the first time, doesn't have problems on the second burn. If I'm completely wrong on this, please correct me as I could be way out in left field as they say. GoldieMN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, GoldieMN said: @wthomas57 Do you trim your wicks to 1/4"? I leave mine at about 1/2" hoping the customer who doesn't burn long enough the first time, doesn't have problems on the second burn. If I'm completely wrong on this, please correct me as I could be way out in left field as they say. GoldieMN I can go with what you do Goldie...makes sense.... Mine are probably 3/8"...... Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Excellent post Wthomas! Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 We burn a candle in our office all day every day, so in addition to normal testing, I also see what my candles do on a power burn. I think most of my customers are the light it and forget it types, and I wick with that in mind. To that end, I think I wick cooler than a lot of people do. Seems like the wicks I use are always a size or two smaller that what everyone else uses for the same wax/jar/FO combo. I do pre-trim to about 1/4" and my candles burn reasonably well without additional trimming. I make that a factor when testing, because I don't think most customers trim. I use FO's that work with my set up rather than trying to change things to make an FO work. That's somewhat limiting, but I don't really mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighten Up Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Trappeur said: I can go with what you do Goldie...makes sense.... Mine are probably 3/8"...... Trappeur I go about 3/8" as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, bfroberts said: We burn a candle in our office all day every day, so in addition to normal testing, I also see what my candles do on a power burn. I think most of my customers are the light it and forget it types, and I wick with that in mind. To that end, I think I wick cooler than a lot of people do. Seems like the wicks I use are always a size or two smaller that what everyone else uses for the same wax/jar/FO combo. I do pre-trim to about 1/4" and my candles burn reasonably well without additional trimming. I make that a factor when testing, because I don't think most customers trim. I use FO's that work with my set up rather than trying to change things to make an FO work. That's somewhat limiting, but I don't really mind. This is how candles should be wicked imo bfroberts - I am amazed at how many candles I buy for test comparison that are just over wicked - spit soot and can't handle them at all without getting burned I don't think people ever trim or burn correctly, they just expect it to work no matter what they do I can't remember do you use soy or paraffin or a blend? Also so I think people may leave wicks longer that make soy in expectation of it growing on them if it gets set aside- I have found a few 464 candles I made years ago and the wick is buried 😂 Paraffin people I'm clueless why they leave them long 🤷♀️ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighten Up Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 I am ready to choose between 2 wicks, and thanks to you guys and your posts, I am choosing the cooler of them. I have seen a couple random burns struggle, but catches up well on the following burn. Also, they aren't needing trimming until the bottom half of the jar, even then, they aren't too hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, moonshine said: This is how candles should be wicked imo bfroberts - I am amazed at how many candles I buy for test comparison that are just over wicked - spit soot and can't handle them at all without getting burned I don't think people ever trim or burn correctly, they just expect it to work no matter what they do I can't remember do you use soy or paraffin or a blend? Also so I think people may leave wicks longer that make soy in expectation of it growing on them if it gets set aside- I have found a few 464 candles I made years ago and the wick is buried 😂 Paraffin people I'm clueless why they leave them long 🤷♀️ I use both 6006 & 4630 or a blend of both. Never satisfied. Earlier this year I found a small Bert's Bees candle someone left behind in one of our cabins. It was about 1/2 full. I lit it to check the burn and it had a FMP within 10 minutes. Within 20 minutes it was too hot to touch. I am amazed that this is considered acceptable, desirable even. Every time I consider growing this business - branching out to larger markets and trying to create a web presence - I reconsider and rein myself in. I just don't think the average consumer wants candles like mine, although I know they are vastly superior to the massed produced junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 37 minutes ago, bfroberts said: I use both 6006 & 4630 or a blend of both. Never satisfied. Earlier this year I found a small Bert's Bees candle someone left behind in one of our cabins. It was about 1/2 full. I lit it to check the burn and it had a FMP within 10 minutes. Within 20 minutes it was too hot to touch. I am amazed that this is considered acceptable, desirable even. Every time I consider growing this business - branching out to larger markets and trying to create a web presence - I reconsider and rein myself in. I just don't think the average consumer wants candles like mine, although I know they are vastly superior to the massed produced junk. Im with you. I used 6006 alone, and when 4630 and also with 464. Prefer it alone more than anything else. Agreed.. never satisfied. The problem is that its not just Burt;s Bees candles that do this. Most/All the big name candles do this. Customers want it, so stores stock it, and if stores stock it manufactures are going to keep making them that way. Personally, I've never had complaints about not getting a full melt pool right away....but then again, maybe I just dont hear from the customers who buy elsewhere. Frustrating On a positive note... more and more as us smaller businesses start getting our products out there in larger mass and because small and mid sized candle businesses are really becoming extremely prevalent.... I think customers will start seeing that more and more candles burn slower and without a quick FMP. Perhaps their will slowly become a shift of expectations over time and what we do now will eventually become the norm. Or.... maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 2:21 PM, wthomas57 said: Im with you. I used 6006 alone, and when 4630 and also with 464. Prefer it alone more than anything else. Agreed.. never satisfied. The problem is that its not just Burt;s Bees candles that do this. Most/All the big name candles do this. Customers want it, so stores stock it, and if stores stock it manufactures are going to keep making them that way. Personally, I've never had complaints about not getting a full melt pool right away....but then again, maybe I just dont hear from the customers who buy elsewhere. Frustrating On a positive note... more and more as us smaller businesses start getting our products out there in larger mass and because small and mid sized candle businesses are really becoming extremely prevalent.... I think customers will start seeing that more and more candles burn slower and without a quick FMP. Perhaps their will slowly become a shift of expectations over time and what we do now will eventually become the norm. Or.... maybe not. I haven't had any complaints about not getting a FMP either. It scares me though, because if me (or anyone) where to ever get a large enough customer base to warrant youtube channels devoted to reviewing my candles, I'd fail miserably if the candle were judged by the standards I see when I watch those reviews. Not that it will ever happen to me, but if. Hey, weren't you using a mottling wax at one time? I was considering trying Candlewic's mottling wax. Have you used that one? Any advice on mottling waxes? I'll be using it in containers. Want to try something different for the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComfortandJoy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 12:29 AM, wthomas57 said: I also pre trim mine to correct length before selling and lidding. It doesn't take anymore work or time to do that and Id rather my customer have a good burnign candle from the get go. Glad you shared that! If I ever make a decent candle for sale, I was thinking I would send them out pre-trimmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, ComfortandJoy said: Glad you shared that! If I ever make a decent candle for sale, I was thinking I would send them out pre-trimmed. both of the McCalls candles I bought over the weekend were trimmed to nubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComfortandJoy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, TallTayl said: both of the McCalls candles I bought over the weekend were trimmed to nubs. I've purchased a few candles that were pre-trimmed way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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