New Quantum waxes - smoking when melting

[aviking]

3 minutes ago, moonshine said:

Suzy - I have not tried any of these waxes and refuse to do so - I appreciate the above people sharing their experiences and it's confirmed what I kinda thought was going to be tr case like most other  soy on the market now - not good 

read the msds sheets on the waxes and it's pretty scary - it says. It to inhale the vapors or mists so what exactly does that mean.....you can't avoid that when melting a melt!  Cases of vinegar smell and coughing when melting, not good 

if your needing to use soy like myself as PB was a big part of my blend I am finding American soy pillar and tart blend to be pretty good so far - it's shinier than I like but it breaks clean in a clamshell and has good ht an Ct

my next series of tests will be adding container soy- 415 to blend to see if it dulls the appearance and boosts throw even more 

Hi moonshine! Is American Soy Pillar and tart the same thing as American Soy Wax P-100?

[SuzyK]

I wish I had seen a year ago that they were discontinuing these waxes, I would have bought more to stock up.  But of course, i didn't know until I went to buy more eco PB wax and it was no where to be found!  That way I could have been testing all summer instead of waiting till the busy season to test.

 

I think the American waxes are ones that seemed promising, and maybe the Golden waxes too. I'm hoping to start testing soon!

[moonshine]

6 minutes ago, aviking said:

Hi moonshine! Is American Soy Pillar and tart the same thing as American Soy Wax P-100?

Yes it is 

 

[moonshine]

2 minutes ago, SuzyK said:

I wish I had seen a year ago that they were discontinuing these waxes, I would have bought more to stock up.  But of course, i didn't know until I went to buy more eco PB wax and it was no where to be found!  That way I could have been testing all summer instead of waiting till the busy season to test.

 

I think the American waxes are ones that seemed promising, and maybe the Golden waxes too. I'm hoping to start testing soon!

Golden wax 416 has also proven to be pretty good - I'm still testing both - the 416 isn't throwing as strong and frost is surfacing but I have additives to try with this next 

I have almost used up all my PB so it's time to Start nailing this down but yes 416 is promising as well 

[aviking]

1 minute ago, moonshine said:

Golden wax 416 has also proven to be pretty good - I'm still testing both - the 416 isn't throwing as strong and frost is surfacing but I have additives to try with this next 

I have almost used up all my PB so it's time to Start nailing this down but yes 416 is promising as well 

We're playing around with 416 now as well. We found it crumbles/breaks really easily when we take the melts out of our molds. The CT and HT were average and we also noticed frosting as well. Not really sure what to add to this to get it to strengthen/crumble less. 

[SuzyK]

I have just a little bit of PB left and I also mixed it with xcel which I have a lot of that left. I LOVE my wax melts and I want to pretend that lots and lots of testing is NOT in my future.

 

Mixing a container wax and pillar wax for wax melts seems to help with some of the frosting/crumbling problems but I haven't tested any waxes in a really long time so that may have changed.

[GoldieMN]

For those making melts and clamshells, I have to say I am getting a good hot throw from the new 464.  I add a very small amount of Ecosoya PB just to make sure they pop out of the clamshell for the customer.  I've never had a problem with 100% 464 tarts popping out of silicon molds nicely.  However, they did smear up the big jars I sold them out of so I just added a little of the PB as I do for clamshells.  I use approximately 3 ounces of 464, .55 ounce PB, and .3 ounce oil.  That comes out to be around 8%, right? 

 

All my candles made with the new 464 that had no hot throw, I melted down and made into clamshells/tarts.  I did add more fragrance oil as I had melted and rewicked these jars a couple times and wasn't sure how much fragrance oil had dissipated.  Overall, I probably have close to 10% FO in them; maybe less.  

GoldieMN

 

 

[moonshine]

11 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

For those making melts and clamshells, I have to say I am getting a good hot throw from the new 464.  I add a very small amount of Ecosoya PB just to make sure they pop out of the clamshell for the customer.  I've never had a problem with 100% 464 tarts popping out of silicon molds nicely.  However, they did smear up the big jars I sold them out of so I just added a little of the PB as I do for clamshells.  I use approximately 3 ounces of 464, .55 ounce PB, and .3 ounce oil.  That comes out to be around 8%, right? 

 

All my candles made with the new 464 that had no hot throw, I melted down and made into clamshells/tarts.  I did add more fragrance oil as I had melted and rewicked these jars a couple times and wasn't sure how much fragrance oil had dissipated.  Overall, I probably have close to 10% FO in them; maybe less.  

GoldieMN

 

 

The new PB or the old?

I personally won't use the new PB so my new formula whatever that may be needs it eliminated altogether 

[moonshine]

1 hour ago, aviking said:

We're playing around with 416 now as well. We found it crumbles/breaks really easily when we take the melts out of our molds. The CT and HT were average and we also noticed frosting as well. Not really sure what to add to this to get it to strengthen/crumble less. 

416 is supposed to be formulated as a tart wax and I see this in container candles when I tried blending it to firm up my wax to eliminate the need to wick down with the soy issues it had horrible wet spots and pulled a touch away from the glass 

I think some soy container blended with this or a touch of bees or stearic will eliminate frost and help the throw but that is to be determined 

[aviking]

38 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

For those making melts and clamshells, I have to say I am getting a good hot throw from the new 464.  I add a very small amount of Ecosoya PB just to make sure they pop out of the clamshell for the customer.  I've never had a problem with 100% 464 tarts popping out of silicon molds nicely.  However, they did smear up the big jars I sold them out of so I just added a little of the PB as I do for clamshells.  I use approximately 3 ounces of 464, .55 ounce PB, and .3 ounce oil.  That comes out to be around 8%, right? 

 

All my candles made with the new 464 that had no hot throw, I melted down and made into clamshells/tarts.  I did add more fragrance oil as I had melted and rewicked these jars a couple times and wasn't sure how much fragrance oil had dissipated.  Overall, I probably have close to 10% FO in them; maybe less.  

GoldieMN

 

 

Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but when you say new 464, what do you mean? Did they change 464? I've been using it for 5 years with pretty good results (apart from the occasional inconsistent box). I've been testing new wicks for a new product lately and did notice a lower HT, but I thought it was just the wicks? I'm totally new to this site, so apologies if there has already been a lot of talk about this.

[GoldieMN]

10 minutes ago, aviking said:

Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but when you say new 464, what do you mean? Did they change 464? I've been using it for 5 years with pretty good results (apart from the occasional inconsistent box). I've been testing new wicks for a new product lately and did notice a lower HT, but I thought it was just the wicks? I'm totally new to this site, so apologies if there has already been a lot of talk about this.

Oh boy. . .hate to tell you this but many are having problems with soy waxes for the past 9-11 mos.  I noticed it in my boxes from last October or November.  It is due to new government regulations.  With 464, people are wicking down one or two sizes.  I will look for one of the threads regarding this and post it.

GoldieMN

[GoldieMN]

45 minutes ago, moonshine said:

The new PB or the old?

I personally won't use the new PB so my new formula whatever that may be needs it eliminated altogether 

Sorry, the old PB.  When I heard they were discontinuing it, I ordered a few bags.

GoldieMN

[GoldieMN]

17 minutes ago, aviking said:

Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but when you say new 464, what do you mean? Did they change 464? I've been using it for 5 years with pretty good results (apart from the occasional inconsistent box). I've been testing new wicks for a new product lately and did notice a lower HT, but I thought it was just the wicks? I'm totally new to this site, so apologies if there has already been a lot of talk about this.

The title doesn't describe it, but there is a lot of information in the 50+ responses regarding problems with new soy waxes.  

GoldieMN

[wthomas57]

3 hours ago, moonshine said:

😳😳😳

is thst seriuisly how much smoke your getting after extinguishing?? Top picture 3rd one from the left 

 

I am in disbelief that they launched this wax as comparables to anything but garbage 

 

Yes not only doed it smoke that much.. but it does for SEVERAL minutes.  Most candlesstop smoking after just a fee seconds.... but not this wax. Its total garbage.

[moonshine]

That's just mind boggling

in those pictures they appear over wicked to me but poster says drowning out - crazy is all I can say and thanks for all the testing....I know what wagon NOT to jump on 😂

[TallTayl]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:28 PM, Grani L said:

Picture 1 - Christmas Splendor - 6% FO -(Pink Candle) First of the 4. Notice the Black at the top pool - Beneath is clear. All candles smoked like a train as each were blew out. The other 2 burned ok. The last grayish purple candle - Blueberry Muffin 6% - flame pretty much drowned out. All burned a good 4 hours.

 

Picture 2 - Purple Hooters - doing good. 

Picture 3  - Purple Hooters - Flames Drowning. 

 

 

Are those wicks slumping in the melt pools? Some of them look pretty deep.

 

Sagging/slumping wicks would look like they are snuffing out since the business end of the wick is shortened as it sinks in the melt pool. 

[wthomas57]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Are those wicks slumping in the melt pools? Some of them look pretty deep.

 

Sagging/slumping wicks would look like they are snuffing out since the business end of the wick is shortened as it sinks in the melt pool. 

 

So whats happening in these pics... at least on the middle picture..... (I know because it did it on majority of my testers is well) is another horrible characteristic of this wax. The wicks just simply have a hard time with this wax and they end up basically clumping really badly at the base (sort of like a mushroom but way worse) instead of the fuel traveling up the wick and combusting. It jsut collects and makes the wick extremely fat and clumpy on top of the wax. Causes a very wide and VERY hot flame. The melt pools become full and deep very quickly. And its not from overwicking. I had it happen on all sizes (too big, too small, etc) The only wicks that seems to avoid doing this were ones that were so underwicked and so small that they essentially did nothing and drown out quickly. I know lots of us have said it repeatedly... but this wax is just bad news. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by wthomas57

[Grani L]

W - Thomas is absolutely right. The wax travels up and collects on the wick instead of combusting. In 4 - 5 hours or so,  the flame is so small it pretty much chokes out. The wick ends up having a very fat head. Reminds me of Broccoli!!  I changed out one wick with a premier. Same sad story. 

[GoldieMN]

I was going to suggest anyone who has tested these Quantum waxes to contact suppliers with results, but it looks like suppliers have tested them and have great results.  Well, at least they boast about the finished look.  They do say "good hot throw" so they must have test burned them, right?    I wonder. . .  

Anyway, I did see a comment that I believe was made by @wthomas57 on one site regarding the problems with wicking.  As time goes by, we will see how others deal with these problem waxes.  Again, thanks to all for your hard work testing them.  

GoldieMN

[Trappeur]

10 hours ago, moonshine said:

That's just mind boggling

in those pictures they appear over wicked to me but poster says drowning out - crazy is all I can say and thanks for all the testing....I know what wagon NOT to jump on 😂

I thought the same thing looking at pictures.....overwicked (look at the black soot on rims) and deep melt depths.  And quite dirty looking the entire jar with filled wax...

 

Trappeur

[Firefly]

I had a bit of smoking the first time but the second time it was fine. I just heated it on really low heat which seemed to work well.

 

I'm wondering if NGI is going to reformulate these waxes based on all these experiences.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Firefly

[wthomas57]

I/We have mostly been talknig about after the candle is extinguished... not just when melting in the melters.

Every customer/tester who has used candles made out of this wax report the same problems. Its REALLY bad

[mulberrysoap]

what in goodness name made someone decide to release these waxes when they are crappy?? Its like a rush job really! its best to take your time, get it right rather than push something out to the market which is not correct.

[Cynna]

Someone up there asked if GMO had an effect on the waxes.  No, I think it's the FDA regulations on botanical oils that jacked everything up.  I've only ever used EcoSoya CB-135 with beeswax for tarts/bars.  Just started making my own last year.  I was looking forward to the Quantum 230 so I could ditch the beeswax because it's so expensive.  Cierra just released all of the new EcoSoya formulas, but I wanted to see what everyone thought of it first before I got in line to buy a case.  Uck!  Nevermind.  My leftover CB-135 will just have to stretch as far as it can!  Can't imagine trying to pawn off a smoking product that smells like vinegar and takes more than 10% FO and STILL has no cold throw.  Yeesh.  What alternatives are best for a good lasting hot throw with tarts? 

[moonshine]

If your wanting soy GB 416 makes a nice melt