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Oil separation in 464?


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I've never had this happen and from researching I'm finding conflicting info...

 

is oil separation/pooling on tops of candles caused by pouring too cool? Or mixing in FO too cool? This only happened on the last two I poured, two different FOs. 

 

It's 464 heated to 185, FO added at 185, cooled to 140(ish) then poured. Maybe I didn't stir as long on the last two? Or the wax cooled too much before pouring or mixing? 

 

Any advice is appreciated. Also- what do you do with messed up candles like these? IMG_2551.thumb.PNG.57187e502168bd5ae6cc874652601dd3.PNG

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51 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Are these fragrances you have used successfully in the past?

are you certain on all of the measurements?

One I've used, one I haven't. CS Very Vanilla (used before) and Aztec Sweet Potato and Brown Sugar (never used).

 

I feel confident in the measurements.

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30 minutes ago, moonshine said:

How much FO are you using?

your temps sound about perfect and you shouldn't have to stir to much with that wax with FO added at that high temp....like TT asked- is this by chance a new box of wax?

I usually do 7% FO, and this was not a new box of wax. My husband did remind me that I usually keep the wax bags in a box, and I had moved it so the bag was resting on the shelf - he thought maybe it was humidity, but that doesn't seem right to me. I was trying to remember if anything happened that kept the wax waiting longer than normal and maybe it cooled more than normal. 

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42 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

So your scale is calibrated? And has fresh batteries? When my batteriesArlo the measurements go off

I suppose the batteries could be running low, but I poured other candles at the same time that are fine. I will replace them when I get home, just to be sure. Do you think it's likely to be the amount of FO per oz?

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There are two oils that I have noticed this happening with.  I contacted the supplier with the first one and got this response:

 

Some fragrances are more viscous than others and don't always like to stay blended. This is one of those fragrances that can cause issues. When using fragrances like these try adding to the wax at a higher temp and I have even warmed the fragrance before adding it to the wax. Then stir, stir, stir and stir some more to get it totally blended in. I would test burn the candle you had issues with to make sure that it doesn't have any oil pockets in it. 

 

The second oil was a tester which I never got back to trying again.

 

I don't know if this is the right way to do this, but I have wiped the oil off the top until completely dry.  Never noticed it returning.  Lit it and didn't have any problems.  However, I wonder if this is not a good idea if selling the candles.

 

 

Goldie

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  • 3 weeks later...
14 hours ago, ellajoan said:

 

Do most scales tell you when the battery is low?  I'm wondering this about my scale, now.

Mine would give no indication, not even the clues that TT was talking about. It'd be fine and then would either just turn off, or not turn on. 

This only happened to me a couple times when I first got my scale, and it irritated me so much I won't use a scale I can't plug in now. The power packs are not that much extra, IMO, to save my peace of mind and not wonder every time if the batteries are going to fail on me. 

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When my scale batteries are low my weights start getting quirky. Some weights are fine while others are off so it can be hard to tell at first that there is a problem. When they get really low the scale shuts off or the light goes off. Then I know for sure its the batteries.

 

Another thing I thought of, vanillas are usually the culprit for me when it comes to seperation. I never go over 5-6% with a vanilla.

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On 9/15/2017 at 8:46 AM, Kerven said:

Do you happen to know the lot number of the wax? I'm hoping this isn't the beginnings of a new Lot F.

I don't - I maybe could call CS and Flaming (I have now had this happen with two different bags of wax).

 

On 9/15/2017 at 3:24 PM, Candybee said:

When my scale batteries are low my weights start getting quirky. Some weights are fine while others are off so it can be hard to tell at first that there is a problem. When they get really low the scale shuts off or the light goes off. Then I know for sure its the batteries.

 

Another thing I thought of, vanillas are usually the culprit for me when it comes to seperation. I never go over 5-6% with a vanilla.

OK I feel like it could be the vanilla - the Aztec FO I used is 6.3% and the Very Vanilla from CS is 5-10%. I've used Very Vanilla many times with no issues - I wonder if it's the change in weather that is effecting this? I'm also seeing cracks in my candles and I've never had that happen either...

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On 8/28/2017 at 9:46 AM, jbradshaw said:

I've never had this happen and from researching I'm finding conflicting info...

 

is oil separation/pooling on tops of candles caused by pouring too cool? Or mixing in FO too cool? This only happened on the last two I poured, two different FOs. 

 

It's 464 heated to 185, FO added at 185, cooled to 140(ish) then poured. Maybe I didn't stir as long on the last two? Or the wax cooled too much before pouring or mixing? 

 

Any advice is appreciated. Also- what do you do with messed up candles like these? IMG_2551.thumb.PNG.57187e502168bd5ae6cc874652601dd3.PNG

 

jbradshaw,

 

I've had this happen to me before but not to the extent with the GW464. I just had like 3 beads form on top. Just mop it up with paper towel. You may have to do this a few times and then heat gun it and it should be fine after that point.  I had this happen with an essential oil blend in my case and my candle was coloured. I think my issue was not stirring the scent enough and not adding in at the right temperature.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@jbradshaw did your top automatically dry this smooth after one pour with gb464, or did you have to use a heat gun? I've made a few candles and this has never happened for me. 

 

Also with  the separation, I burned a gb464 multiple times, it would always cool with a greater like top until a few days ago. it had burned for a cumulative total of 32hours and i noticed that when it cooled down, the top was completely smooth. I also noticed some tiny beads of oil on top. First time it's happening. Not sure how to explain it. 

Edited by CatCatCandles
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@CatCatCandles Yes, my tops dry that smooth from one pour, i've actually never used a heat gun. What temp do you pour at? 

 

I've been stirring way longer than I used to, and that has stopped the oil separation. I'm not sure if it was a weird thing where I was just getting lazy or what - but I haven't had it happen. 

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@CatCatCandles I pour between 135 and 150, usually around 145. Once I start burning the candle I sometimes get smooth tops, but mostly get imperfect tops, but that's to be expected with soy. 

 

I think the issue is your fragrance load - 2oz per pound of FO is over 12% - and the max FO for 464 is 12%. I have never gone that high, I know most people here that use 464 do 6%, I usually do 7%. Try lowering your fragrance load and seeing what happens.

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I think the max. f/o for GW464 is 9% ... it's the GW444 that is 11% as far as I'm aware. 

 

Now, that's amazing though ... the 464 will actually hold 12% without seeping?  The thing that concerns me the most with using more f/o than recommended is fire hazard.

 

As for stirring, it's a critical step.  Also, I'm of the belief that you should use a spoon to stir with, going around the pot several times, then some figure eights, just to make sure it's all getting mixed well.  I've seen some youtube videos in which they splash the scent in the pot and give it a few brief whisks with a slender stick ... makes me shudder!!  :)

 

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11 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

As for stirring, it's a critical step.  Also, I'm of the belief that you should use a spoon to stir with, going around the pot several times, then some figure eights, just to make sure it's all getting mixed well.  I've seen some youtube videos in which they splash the scent in the pot and give it a few brief whisks with a slender stick ... makes me shudder!!  :)

 

I use a wide, soft silicone spatula to stir. It really moves the mixture around and generates little, if any, introduced air. A bonus is that I can scrape every last drop of the wax from the pot making cleaning easier.

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14 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

I think the max. f/o for GW464 is 9% ... it's the GW444 that is 11% as far as I'm aware. 

 

Now, that's amazing though ... the 464 will actually hold 12% without seeping?  The thing that concerns me the most with using more f/o than recommended is fire hazard.

 

As for stirring, it's a critical step.  Also, I'm of the belief that you should use a spoon to stir with, going around the pot several times, then some figure eights, just to make sure it's all getting mixed well.  I've seen some youtube videos in which they splash the scent in the pot and give it a few brief whisks with a slender stick ... makes me shudder!!  :)

 

I think Cat is seeing seepage at that %

 

I use cocktail stirring spoons (I think they have a real name but I can't remember it) - they are long with a spoon at the end, but I may grab some of my silicone spatulas, that's a great idea TallTayl. 

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45 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I use a wide, soft silicone spatula to stir. It really moves the mixture around and generates little, if any, introduced air. A bonus is that I can scrape every last drop of the wax from the pot making cleaning easier.

 

That is even better than large spoon (I should have clarified the size, I use similar to a tablespoon) -- I got in the habit of using those for color testing -- I can scoop a little in the spoon on my way out of the melting pot and let it sit to see how color is doing, but I agree that for stirring scent, a spatula would be even better.

 

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@jbradshaw im taking your tip and pouring close to 145 next batch! fingers crossed for beautiful tops. I also always stir for at least 2 minutes timed with a spoon. maybe i'll stir more. 

 

2 hours ago, birdcharm said:

I think the max. f/o for GW464 is 9% ... it's the GW444 that is 11% as far as I'm aware. 

Now, that's amazing though ... the 464 will actually hold 12% without seeping?  The thing that concerns me the most with using more f/o than recommended is fire hazard.

 

@birdcharmin the info section for GB 464, CS actually says the max fragrance is 12% or 2oz/lb. so that's what I used as a guideline. 

but absolutely noted! i'll go much lower next time seeing as 12% is counter productive and expensive.  

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