Canyon like cracks and cottage cheese looking tops

[pexancrafts]

I am sort of new to candle making, so please bear with me. I have been using Golden Brands 464 wax since I started making candles. At first, the tops were great! No cracks, just small little pits near the wicks. Not a big deal to me. But that was only the first few batches when I was testing. Now, in all the batches I'm making, the majority of the candles will have huge cracks and the parts that are not cracked are cottage cheese looking. But the kicker is that some of them turn out perfect!

 

My FO load is 10%, the max recommended for this wax.

 

Dye does not matter because it happens to both undyed and dyed candles.

 

I place the candles in the oven to make sure they do not get cooled too fast as my AC vent in the kitchen would blow right on them on the table.

 

There are no bubbles in the wax when I pour it.

 

The only consistency I see is in jar size. I have 3 different size jars I pour into when making a batch. The smallest ones will more than likely come out perfect, the mediums more likely come out bad, and the larges always come out bad.

 

I've been pouring around 130 to 140. However, when I was first making candles, I didn't pay attention to the pour temp. I added fragrance oil between 150 and 180, stirred, and poured right away. Now I heat to around 150, add fragrance oil and stir. I was getting a better hot throw by adding the fragrance oil at a cooler temperature.

 

Any tips to what could be causing these huge cracks? Also, any tips to perhaps fix the candles I've already made? I don't want to waste all that wax and fragrance oil. I know soy is prone to shrinkage and will produce SMALL pits and cracks, but it should not create cracks that you can see half way down the candle!

 

Thanks in advance!

[pexancrafts]

Oh, one more detail I forgot to add. I have been using a Presto pot with a spigot to pour the candles instead of an actual pouring pot. (Can melt more wax that way.) I started with a pouring pot but then switched to a presto since it held more and it was easier to control the pour.

[GoldieMN]

First of all, I would take a heat gun or hair dryer to the tops to smooth out.  If you see holes developing, use a skewer to poke into the candle as there is probably an air pocket further down in the candle. The melted wax from the hair dryer/heat gun will fill in the skewer holes.  I also tap the jars on the counter while doing to help release air bubbles.  Not sure if this is necessary, but I do it.

 

Second, what caused this?  Well, many are having problems with 2016-17 boxes of 464 wax as well as a few other soys from AAK (Golden Brand).  What you are describing is what I experienced along with very little hot throw.  If it isn't the wax, it could be a number of other reasons like pouring a bit too fast.  I am getting really good results by heating my jars in the oven then pouring wax at around 150.  I've always added my fragrance at 180-183 so I am not sure about that part of your method affecting your candles.

Frustrating, I know.

Goldie 

[Trappeur]

I agree with Goldie....a heat gun will take care of the tops when the candle has cooled and set.   Or just pour a 2'nd very thin pour over the set candle called a "repour".

You might have to take a skewer and put relief holes around the wick if you do a repour.

 

In order for the oil to bind correctly and incorporate into the wax, heat the wax to 175/180 and then add your oil at 175 and stir/mix very very well. 

Your adding your oil at too low a temperature.

 

Pour like what Goldie's suggestion is.  I do that do give or take.  Experiment going from like say 145 to maybe 155.....give or take.

 

The lower the temperature you pour as what you are doing I have found produces cottage cheese tops.  Pour very slowly too and yes, try tapping the glass slightly as I know so many do that.  So maybe that will help.

 

Now I don't preheat my jars or put in the oven....that's me.

Since you have a draft overhead I would put maybe a towel down on the counter and set the jars on top and pour.  Try covering the candles after poured with maybe a box to slow down the cooling and away from the draft.  Also too I have found when you have poured a bunch of jars do not sit them close to one another.  They need space like maybe 2" away from one another in order for them to set nice and even.  They shouldn't be touching one another the glass jars.

 

Also too, this may sound a little weird but when you put the jars in the oven to cool, believe it or not, since they are sitting on a rack, walking around/movement can disturb the jars as the rack is not a solid foundation.  And too if the the jars are not cooled in the oven, moving the jars out from the oven can break the seal of the wax.....These are all possibilities.

 

These are suggestions from me.  Others will come and offer their suggestions too.

 

Trappeur

 

Let us know how things work out.....
 

[pexancrafts]

5 hours ago, GoldieMN said:

First of all, I would take a heat gun or hair dryer to the tops to smooth out.  If you see holes developing, use a skewer to poke into the candle as there is probably an air pocket further down in the candle. The melted wax from the hair dryer/heat gun will fill in the skewer holes.  I also tap the jars on the counter while doing to help release air bubbles.  Not sure if this is necessary, but I do it.

 

Second, what caused this?  Well, many are having problems with 2016-17 boxes of 464 wax as well as a few other soys from AAK (Golden Brand).  What you are describing is what I experienced along with very little hot throw.  If it isn't the wax, it could be a number of other reasons like pouring a bit too fast.  I am getting really good results by heating my jars in the oven then pouring wax at around 150.  I've always added my fragrance at 180-183 so I am not sure about that part of your method affecting your candles.

Frustrating, I know.

Goldie 

Thanks, Goldie. I haven't had too much of an issue with hot throw with them, at least for scents that I already had a good hot throw. Still testing other scents to figure out if it'll work in soy or not. But the ones I know give a good hot throw still do. So I hope it's not the wax, but my next batch I'll try to pour hotter and see what happens. Would using a spigot on a presto pot be too fast, or would it depend on how far I opened it?

[pexancrafts]

2 hours ago, Trappeur said:

I agree with Goldie....a heat gun will take care of the tops when the candle has cooled and set.   Or just pour a 2'nd very thin pour over the set candle called a "repour".

You might have to take a skewer and put relief holes around the wick if you do a repour.

 

In order for the oil to bind correctly and incorporate into the wax, heat the wax to 175/180 and then add your oil at 175 and stir/mix very very well. 

Your adding your oil at too low a temperature.

 

Pour like what Goldie's suggestion is.  I do that do give or take.  Experiment going from like say 145 to maybe 155.....give or take.

 

The lower the temperature you pour as what you are doing I have found produces cottage cheese tops.  Pour very slowly too and yes, try tapping the glass slightly as I know so many do that.  So maybe that will help.

 

Now I don't preheat my jars or put in the oven....that's me.

Since you have a draft overhead I would put maybe a towel down on the counter and set the jars on top and pour.  Try covering the candles after poured with maybe a box to slow down the cooling and away from the draft.  Also too I have found when you have poured a bunch of jars do not sit them close to one another.  They need space like maybe 2" away from one another in order for them to set nice and even.  They shouldn't be touching one another the glass jars.

 

Also too, this may sound a little weird but when you put the jars in the oven to cool, believe it or not, since they are sitting on a rack, walking around/movement can disturb the jars as the rack is not a solid foundation.  And too if the the jars are not cooled in the oven, moving the jars out from the oven can break the seal of the wax.....These are all possibilities.

 

These are suggestions from me.  Others will come and offer their suggestions too.

 

Trappeur

 

Let us know how things work out.....
 

Thanks, Trappeur. I'll try adding the oil at a higher temperature to see if maybe that'll help with some scents hot throw. Certain scents I have are really strong with me adding it at 150. I had put the candles on a cookie sheet and put them in the pan, but I do agree it is still pretty unstable. I live in a mobile home and sometimes my husband's heavy walking will disturb the wick bars and displace them. The draft is from the air vent on the floor. Would putting the box over them still help?

Thank you for your advice! I'll be trying to make some more either tomorrow night or this weekend, so I'll let ya'll know how it turns out and hope I don't have a bad batch of wax!

[GoldieMN]

I know, "how slow is 'slow'"? lol  If I pour today, I will count to see how long it takes to fill a pint jar at my "slow".  

Goldie

[birdcharm]

On 8/16/2017 at 9:52 AM, pexancrafts said:

I have been using Golden Brands 464 ...

...  My FO load is 10%, the max recommended for this wax.

 

 

 

Just so you know, the fragrance load for GW 464 is 7-9% ... you're a little high on the scent amount.  I'm not sure if it's part of the problem, but it could possibly be a contributor. 

 

Also, I'm assuming that your oven is not on when you place them in there to keep them away from A/C vents.

[pexancrafts]

34 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

Just so you know, the fragrance load for GW 464 is 7-9% ... you're a little high on the scent amount.  I'm not sure if it's part of the problem, but it could possibly be a contributor. 

 

Also, I'm assuming that your oven is not on when you place them in there to keep them away from A/C vents.

 

I wasn't really sure what the amount was.  According to Lonestar Candle Supply it is 7 to 9%, however Candlescience says up to 12% and both are for 464, so I figured I'd try 10. I couldn't find anything that was conclusive.

 

No, I don't have the oven on. I have the candles on a tray in the oven with the door cracked.

[birdcharm]

24 minutes ago, pexancrafts said:

 

I wasn't really sure what the amount was.  According to Lonestar Candle Supply it is 7 to 9%, however Candlescience says up to 12% and both are for 464, so I figured I'd try 10. I couldn't find anything that was conclusive.

 

 

For your next batch, try it at 7-9% and see how it goes. 

As mentioned by others, make sure to heat it to around 180 and allow it to cool to at least 150 before pouring.

 

From "Candle Science" - GW464

Melt Point	115-119°F
Max Fragrance	12% or 2oz./lb.
Pour temp	135°F (+/- 5°)

 

They're also wrong about the pouring temp just a bit too if this reference from AAK is correct ...

 

GW464:  Pour Temp: 125-145  I  Melt Point: 115-120  I  FO Load: 7%-9%

 

AAK techinical data for Golden Wax

 

 

[pexancrafts]

7 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

For your next batch, try it at 7-9% and see how it goes. 

As mentioned by others, make sure to heat it to around 180 and allow it to cool to at least 150 before pouring.

 

From "Candle Science" - GW464

Melt Point	115-119°F
Max Fragrance	12% or 2oz./lb.
Pour temp	135°F (+/- 5°)

 

They're also wrong about the pouring temp just a bit too if this reference from AAK is correct ...

 

GW464:  Pour Temp: 125-145  I  Melt Point: 115-120  I  FO Load: 7%-9%

 

AAK techinical data for Golden Wax

 

 

Alright! ?Thanks for that info. I had been pouring at the 130 to 140 mark like I had seen, but I guess you can't follow the directions on wax sometimes lol

[TallTayl]

How are you stirring? Are you introducing air as you stir?

 

Eyster periodically from when I add the fragrance to when I pour. Generally I can tell by the look and the feel of how it stirs in the pot if it's going to crack.

[pexancrafts]

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

How are you stirring? Are you introducing air as you stir?

 

Eyster periodically from when I add the fragrance to when I pour. Generally I can tell by the look and the feel of how it stirs in the pot if it's going to crack.

I stir with a spoon in a circular motion, so I wouldn't think it would introduce air that way. When I'm waiting for it to cool, I'll stir every time I check the temperature. What are things you look for to tell if it's going to crack or not?

[TallTayl]

My C3 only cracks if I pour too hot. I can tell by the haze in my pot when it's time to pour.

[JeremyM]

As someone else mentioned, there have been issues with boxes of 464 produced in the summer months. From what I have read, you want to stock up on wax before the summer because it seems moisture gets into the wax at the manufacturer. I had a box with a June date, and everything was fine until about halfway to the bottom of the box. I got to the point where every candle had huge sink holes, and a few random candles had very bad cottage cheese tops. Normally, the tops are very smooth. I switched to another box of 464 with an April date on it, and all those problems went away. I hate wasting wax, so I use the June wax for testing (and use a heat gun to fix the problems) and use the April wax for fulfilling orders. 

[jbradshaw]

Are you using the presto spigot directly into your containers? Or presto into a pour pot with fragrance and pour from there? From the spigot might be too fast, just a thought. 

[pexancrafts]

I made a batch of candles today and so far there are no cracks or sink holes. I heated it to around 180, added FO at 9%, cooled to around 150 and poured directly from the presto pot. Also, I can't tell when my wax was made as my supplier puts it into their own bags and it doesn't have that info on it, but so far it seems that I was just pouring too hot. Thanks for everyone's help!