Terry

Sunday's soaps

8 posts in this topic

I made two 2-lb. batches of soap on Sunday.  Sorry about the qualitiy of the pictures.

 

TT's Tonic - (just love tthis - the best scent ever!)

olive oil 40%

coconut oil  25%

lard (manteca)  20%

shea butter  10%

castor oil   5%

1.6 oz stearic acid

2 tsp sodium lactate

2TBLS honey

2TBLS full fat greek yogurt

1 oz FO 

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WSP Sun & Sand

lard (manteca)  50%

olive oil 20%

coconut oil  20%

grapeseed oil  5%

castor oil   5%

1.6 oz stearic acid

2 tsp sodium lactate

2TBLS honey

2TBLS full fat greek yogurt

1 oz FO 

1 tiny spoon of pink mica

sun-sand.thumb.jpg.d4b4da0fc521446256358314abc23a11.jpg

Both....

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My kitchen smelled delightful WOW!

HP method temps up to 220 f, all oils thoroughly melted (stearic in with the oils)

yogurt in a warm crock with the honey and 2 oz discounted from the total water (yogurt/honey liquified).

After the cook I scraped the crock and made soap pancakes! - The Tonic recipe has some nice dense bubbles and the S&S recipe is very creamy.  I love both!

So a few things -

1)  I see white  spots in the soap.  I was pretty careful about not scraping the cooked soap on the side of the pot into the batter when stirring.  I feel I mixed and melted well would anyone know what this could be ?

2)  Also, the soap gives when I press in although it's not too soft.   I ran both recipes through Soapcalc and the oils fell within the quality ranges.  I am hoping cure time will harden the soap or perhaps I do not have a good mix of ingredients? Should I increase the stearic? 

3)  I found that even with the addition of yogurt after the cook the batter was a bit thick and I might have had a hard time coloring if I wanted to.

Any suggestions?  Thank you my dears!:hello:

 

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6 minutes ago, Terry said:

 

So a few things -

1)  I see white  spots in the soap.  I was pretty careful about not scraping the cooked soap on the side of the pot into the batter when stirring.  I feel I mixed and melted well would anyone know what this could be ? This could still be bits of dried overcooked soaps, and/or unmelted stearic spots. I wouldn't worry about it. Aesthetic problem only most likely. 

2)  Also, the soap gives when I press in although it's not too soft.   I ran both recipes through Soapcalc and the oils fell within the quality ranges.  I am hoping cure time will harden the soap or perhaps I do not have a good mix of ingredients? Should I increase the stearic?  Even though it's HP it will get harder as it cures. Even HP will benefit for a good long cure, just like CP. I wouldn't increase the stearic. That will diminish your lather, and it's not really needed. 

3)  I found that even with the addition of yogurt after the cook the batter was a bit thick and I might have had a hard time coloring if I wanted to. This I'm not sure of as I've never used yogurt in my HP and my soap batter so I can't help you with this point. 

Any suggestions?  Thank you my dears!:hello:

 

Hope this helps a little. 

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Your soaps look great! You should feel good about them!

 

I would concur that the white spots are most likely undisolved stearic. I never add stearic to my soaps as it is easy to get it naturally through oils with stearic in it. But for the recipe you used it would not be necessary. The soaps will harden within a few days and also be more gentle and conditioning.

 

Re the yogurt, I have used it many times in my soapmaking and it makes lovely, rich, creamy lather. I did eventually give it up because it always discolored my soap to a light tan after it cured.

 

You did the right thing by adjusting your liquid to account for the yogurt you used. The yogurt and honey should actually help make the batter a bit more manageable than without. Did you use full water? I find with HP soaping I always need to use full water and sometimes a little extra. Depends on how long and how hot the cook. The longer and hotter the cook the more fluid evaporation will occur leaving you with thick chunky soap that can be hard to work with and manage.

 

So cook on low or warm setting and for 20-40 minutes depending on your crockpot. Don't cook for hours. Remember the soap will saponify without the cook.The cook is only useful for saponifying quickly so its done within a few minutes.

 

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Thank you JCA - your comments are helpful esp. about the stearic.  I added this ingredient because I understood that it hastens the cook and makes the bar a bit harder than without.  Actually the white pieces in the soap don't really bother me, just wanted to know if it was just aesthetic or a technique/ingredient issue.

 

Thank you Candy - I did use full water, the default of 38% on the soapcalc site.  I added the yogurt thinking it would thin out the batter at the end of the cook, total cook time was about 20 minutes (not including the time to melt the oils in the crock) to reach the gel stage at which point I removed it from the base.  Melting the oils takes about 45 minutes or so, UGH! Would melting the solid oils in bursts in the microwave destroy any of the properties I wonder?  Next time I will try lowering the heat a bit and cook a bit longer.

 

Thanks again to you both for your expert advice and encouragement always!  XO

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Hey @Terry I mostly agree with @Jcandleattic and @Candybee, 1. Nice looking soaps!  2. absolutely lose the stearic. 

3. JC made mention of this about the white bits being possibly overcooked (meaning dehydrated) soap and I usually get this in my soaps when I don't quite get everything off the bottom. 

4. Here's where I differ in opinion, I personally don't discount the yogurt from my water content, because really in HP you're going to lose a lot of water from steam and processing and, just for me I don't find it necessary. 

5. I hate to say it but I don't use honey in my formulations anymore, well, I DO use it in 1 and only 1 CP soap and it's really more of a gimmick than because I really want it in there. Honey as beautiful and wonderful a substance as it is just SUCKS in soap. White sugar works WAY better in my experience. Beeswax DOES work nicely in soap, but it's got it's own set of problems. 

Good looking formulation, and because you're using sodium lactate (even if you didn't it'd still be just fine) your bars should turn out after a week or so nice a hard. The softness is likely (as has already been mentioned) due to water still in the soap, BUT something else that I've found is that it COULD be air. My soap floats, and if you put a stick blender or a whisk into that pot after the soap had hit potato or vasoline stage you probably have some incorporated air in there. Floating soap is not a bad thing in my book, but it does wear a little faster, however the SL will mitigate some of that softness. 

Here's the way I do my HP soaps and I get a nice smooth fluid batter that can be poured and colored and swirled and (oh the fun you will HAVE) 
I have adapted my method from Valerie Mosher's method which I HIGHLY reccomend you check out. This is her Youtube i normally point folks to: 


Anyway to recap my technique:
1. I soap at 38-40% water and I only put in about 30-33% water in the initial cook. The rest of the water I split off and the bulk of which I use to dissolve the white sugar (1TBSP PPO) I keep the sugar water well warmed and under plastic wrap so as not to lose any to evaporation.  The other part of the water I use in my yogurt and/or clay mix. I do this because I freeze my yogurt into preweighed cubes and they tend to dry out in the freezer. (Another reason I don't discount my water for the yogurt) But even fresh yogurt I add water to and if there is kaolin clay added I only add enough water to make a runny yogurt like consistency...  It's also kept sealed up and warm. You'll see a trend here that EVERYTHING is WARM. 

2. I let my lye solution cool down a tad mostly because I add silk to my solution and it needs some time to dissolve. 

3. I soap at 0% SF and I ADD a SPECIFIC fat (usually OO or CO) at the end of the cook after all of the soap has saponified. USUALLY I SF at 5% and I'll split the superfat across my mica's which are added at the end of the cook. 

4. KEEP THE CROCK POT SEALED UP WITH PLASTIC WRAP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. You're gonna have to do hand to hand combat , well spoon/whisk/dough whisk/stirring thingy to soap combat with active volcanoes... It's GONNA HAPPEN so be prepared and be wearing your protective gear. 

5. Ok at between >170F <190F I start my soaping I add my lye to the fat and I SB it until light trace. I leave the crockpot on warm at this point. then I wipe down the sides and seal it with the plastic wrap and I LEAVE it alone until a.) it starts to volcano and I have to beat it back down or b.) Absolutly not more than 12 minutes has passed. Generally once I see it bubbling up at the edges and rolling onto the top I'll turn the pot to off for a few minutes. I normally get some combat in at around 6-8 minutes. ( I don't time it anymore to be perfectly honest) 

6. I just keep beating it back down as it threatens to leave the pot wiping down the sides as I go resealing it until it's stable and in vasoline stage. 

7. I turn the pot off and I let the sealed up soap sit and cool down stirring only occasionally to get even cooling. I check all of my temps at this point (IMPORTANT) with a digital stick-it-in-the-pot thermometer. I would NOT trust my laser temp reader at this point. I let the temperature get NO HIGHER than 200F and I personally want it at around 195F. 
It's HIGHLY IMPORTANT that you make SURE the BOTTOM and SIDES are checked for temperature the as ALL of the batter needs to be well below boiling otherwise when you add the sugar water it could hit a superheated pocket of soap and blow up/volcano on you...  Which isn't going to be caustic at this point but it will be sticky above boiling lava goo soap and that can really hurt ya... 

8. At 195F I add in my sugar water and mix it in thoroughly. Then I seal it back up and let the mix cool down to around 178F.

9. at 178F (ish) I add in the yogurt and clay mix and I let it set for oh... 5-6 minutes sealed up. 

10 at around 150-165F I add in my SL first, rest 3-5 min... then my FO (I don't usually rest it at this point, though if it;s sealed up it doesn't hurt a thing) I'll SB it a little and then I blend up my colors with the SF.

At that last bit with the FO and the SF it should be just as loose as medium trace CP soap. I usually use some sort of ITP swirl and then I'll hanger or chopstick the hell out of it... I think there's some pictures of some recent stuff i've done in the  Old B&B style subforum... The specifics of how to get a smooth and fluid batter seems to be very much dependant upon adding everything after the cook AND in order of sugar, milks, SL, SF & FO or (FO and SF it doesn't seem to make much difference, in FACT I've used some of the FO to mix my micas with before.) AND at specific temperature ranges.  

Man, I resisted HP for a while but after I saw Valerie's results I HAD to give it a go and, well... I almost NEVER make CP anymore. I like the lowered FO requirements, the fast "cure" time, the consistency, the ability to specify exactly what I use as a SF, and the lack of color morphs really make this the more attractive option *for me*. 

Anywho... I know that's a chunk to swaller but I hope it helps some. 

Cheers,

Sponiebr: The Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services. 
    
 

   

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11 hours ago, Terry said:

 Melting the oils takes about 45 minutes or so, UGH! Would melting the solid oils in bursts in the microwave destroy any of the properties I wonder?  Next time I will try lowering the heat a bit and cook a bit longer.

 

Thanks again to you both for your expert advice and encouragement always!  XO

No, melting in the microwave won't destroy the properties, it will just melt the oils faster. My masterbatch oils are a little thicker than slush in the wintertime, and to get them fluid again, I always zap them in the microwave to melt them a bit before soaping. 

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WOW Sponie!! 

 

Thank you for that very in-depth explanation!  You gave me a present on YOUR birthday ha-ha! :partywhooo:   I am going to have to read and re-read your post to absorb.  I believe I have seen Valerie's YouTube video but will give it another view for sure.

 

Floating soap eh?  I know I did stir the soap A LOT after the vaseline stage to try and get it down to about 170 so I can add the yogurt and honey mixture.  So I may have incorporated air too.

 

Although I had the lid on during the cook except for when stirring I may try the plastic wrap and cook at a bit lower temperature.  My highest temp was 224 degrees, too hot.

Typically what oil/butter do you SF with?  Can any oil/butter be a SF?

 

You mention silk.  How much of a difference does silk make?  I suppose it makes the soap smooth as in glide on your skin.

 

One reason I used honey at all is the label appeal when I sell one day.  The other reason was my son's girlfriend's mother is a beekeeper!  She gave me a jar so I added some in and am planning on giving them soap after it's cured.  Personally, I'd rather add it into my fruit shakes - it's just too good for soap!  :D

 

Eventually I plan on looking into natural colorants and EO's.  Not now until I find my best base recipe.

 

I am with you Sponie - HP all the way!  I've seen some really nice swirls with HP and know it can be done.  Never again will I buy the  "beauty bars" of "soap" at the store.

Enjoy!

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3 hours ago, Terry said:

WOW Sponie!! 

 

Thank you for that very in-depth explanation!  You gave me a present on YOUR birthday ha-ha! :partywhooo:   I am going to have to read and re-read your post to absorb.  I believe I
Oh it's always a pleasure to provide a 20 page explanation on how to butter toast ;) 

Typically what oil/butter do you SF with?  Can any oil/butter be a SF?


Sure. I mean personally I'd stay away from strongly scented fats like lard and tallow, but really any fat you soap with could be considered for a SF. I generally use the longest on-it's-own shelf life oil I can get my hands on (not castor because it's sticky), which I generally use OO or CO as the SF.  
 

You mention silk.  How much of a difference does silk make?  I suppose it makes the soap smooth as in glide on your skin.


It makes a BIG difference. 1 when you have it already in the water before you add the lye it takes the nasty choke you to death vapors that you normally get when mixing lye and replaces them with this really pretty light mulberry blossom scented vapor that isn't nearly as likely to choke you up. It also makes for an incredibly silky feeling soap that goes on and rinses with the same silky feel. It's pretty cheap, easy to incorporate, and I put it into all of my soaps now.  
 

One reason I used honey at all is the label appeal when I sell one day.  The other reason was my son's girlfriend's mother is a beekeeper!  She gave me a jar so I added some in and am planning on giving them soap after it's cured.  Personally, I'd rather add it into my fruit shakes - it's just too good for soap!  :D


Well, I can understand that. In HP the honey added after the cook is less of an issue than in CP, where it's a HUGE issue (relatively speaking). But even in HP honey does seem to make a stickier soap than white sugar does and it doesn't seem to boost lather quite as much as regular sugar does. I lost the honey personally (except in that one CP soap), and traded the name appeal for a higher quality product in doing so. If you do continue to use honey, I'd just go with the el cheapo Walmart GV Clover honey.  

Eventually I plan on looking into natural colorants and EO's.  Not now until I find my best base recipe.

I've found oxides and oxide tinted micas are the best value $ for $ the in the long run, in regards to stability, coloration, and standardization and they still qualify as all-natural. 




Cheers,

Sponiebr

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