NEST Candles

[Bia]

Hello!

 

I believe NEST has amazing wax and scent throw.  Their wax is probably proprietary... can any of you experts confirm this?

Do you think it has coconut wax?

 

I'm doing everything right and my candles just don't smell as strong and as good ;-(   I used IGI 4630 and 6006 with the right wicks, they are burning very nicely and CandleScience fragrances.  

 

How do these amazing companies pull it off?  What do they do differently?

 

 

Thanks!

[birdcharm]

I read that the Slatkins decided to have scents created for them that were formulated more like perfume than traditional candle scents, with "sophisticated top, middle and base notes."  My guess is that part of it has to do with the composition of the fragrances. 

 

In an article I was reading (not about the Slatkins or Nest), it said that for candle scents to have good throw, they require a strong top and middle note.

 

 

[Flicker]

13 hours ago, birdcharm said:

I read that the Slatkins decided to have scents created for them that were formulated more like perfume than traditional candle scents, with "sophisticated top, middle and base notes."  My guess is that part of it has to do with the composition of the fragrances. 

 

In an article I was reading (not about the Slatkins or Nest), it said that for candle scents to have good throw, they require a strong top and middle note.

 

 

Most companies have their scents designed for them. Truly, none of the big guns are using stock fragrances, but that also does not mean that you can't buy scents that also are very layered. A lot of scents out there are just as good, or better. Personally I've never been that impressed with Slatkin candles.

[birdcharm]

5 hours ago, Flicker said:

Personally I've never been that impressed with Slatkin candles.

 

That goes for many of the over-priced (imo) designer products, I'm not quite sure why people pay so much money for mass-produced designer products, when much of the time, if they can find it from an artisan, it would be of higher quality for less money.

 

 

[Bia]

22 hours ago, Flicker said:

Most companies have their scents designed for them. Truly, none of the big guns are using stock fragrances, but that also does not mean that you can't buy scents that also are very layered. A lot of scents out there are just as good, or better. Personally I've never been that impressed with Slatkin candles.

I guess I'm having difficulty finding these scents.  I'm putting 10-12% FO in my candles and most have ok CT and HT.  I notice they take hours to fill up a large room. Most of my FO are from CS. My reference was Nest tangerine because I lit it the other day and in 15 mins the room was filled with fragrance.  I'm starting a company in Brasil, an new candle market with few options, the candle buyers are not yet as sophisticated as in the US, so they want to be hit with the CT and HT to be impressed.  The US has gotten over this stage.  Seems the public is choosing more sophisticated, subtle senses.  personally Baies from Dyptique is my favourite, but it costs a fortune, imo.  If only I could replicate that!

 

[Bia]

On 8/7/2017 at 0:27 AM, birdcharm said:

I read that the Slatkins decided to have scents created for them that were formulated more like perfume than traditional candle scents, with "sophisticated top, middle and base notes."  My guess is that part of it has to do with the composition of the fragrances. 

 

In an article I was reading (not about the Slatkins or Nest), it said that for candle scents to have good throw, they require a strong top and middle note.

 

 

How do we know from an online description that  a scent has strong top and middle note?

 

[Flicker]

You really don't short of testing. Truly it won't matter, some scents just throw better and some simply do better in some waxes. Example...Twigs & Berries from The Candlemakers Store knocks my socks off. And it's cheap

[wthomas57]

4 hours ago, Bia said:

I guess I'm having difficulty finding these scents.  I'm putting 10-12% FO in my candles and most have ok CT and HT.  I notice they take hours to fill up a large room. Most of my FO are from CS. My reference was Nest tangerine because I lit it the other day and in 15 mins the room was filled with fragrance.  I'm starting a company in Brasil, an new candle market with few options, the candle buyers are not yet as sophisticated as in the US, so they want to be hit with the CT and HT to be impressed.  The US has gotten over this stage.  Seems the public is choosing more sophisticated, subtle senses.  personally Baies from Dyptique is my favourite, but it costs a fortune, imo.  If only I could replicate that!

 

 

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. If there is less competition there its much easier for you to stand out than it is in the U.S. They dont have to be luxory candles to do well.

And I agree with Flicker. I have many "cheap" scents that will blow you away. It depends on the FO, wax, process, etc. 

[Bia]

10 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

 

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. If there is less competition there its much easier for you to stand out than it is in the U.S. They dont have to be luxory candles to do well.

And I agree with Flicker. I have many "cheap" scents that will blow you away. It depends on the FO, wax, process, etc. 

that's exactly what I want to find! the cheap blow me aways ;-)  

[Bia]

14 hours ago, Flicker said:

You really don't short of testing. Truly it won't matter, some scents just throw better and some simply do better in some waxes. Example...Twigs & Berries from The Candlemakers Store knocks my socks off. And it's cheap

I visited their site and found lots of useful information! Thank you.

Did you notice they have 1,300+ scents and not only review from any customer?  I thought this was weird.  I'm hoping they redid their site or something because people love to give reviews.  Made me think of a ghost town site!  All this because I was thinking of trying a few of their Grade A scents but from the lack of reviews it almost looks like no one has bought anything!

[wthomas57]

You said most of your oils are from CS and you're having issues? CS is a great supplier. I have many from them, along with NG, AZ, etc.

If you are having lots of issues with throw from these main suppliers, Id double check you are picking higher rated oils as well as double check your

process and ensure you are keeping a keen eye on your temps during mixing and pouring, etc. Even the slightest adjustments sometimes can make a big difference.

 

I see you are using 4630 and 6006. 6006 has been a little spotty lately because its a % of soy which has been inconsistent lately. 4630 usually is a great thrower but I dont like to use it by itself. Too sooty/smokey for me. Blending the two works well though. What wicks are you using?

[Bia]

20 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

You said most of your oils are from CS and you're having issues? CS is a great supplier. I have many from them, along with NG, AZ, etc.

If you are having lots of issues with throw from these main suppliers, Id double check you are picking higher rated oils as well as double check your

process and ensure you are keeping a keen eye on your temps during mixing and pouring, etc. Even the slightest adjustments sometimes can make a big difference.

 

I see you are using 4630 and 6006. 6006 has been a little spotty lately because its a % of soy which has been inconsistent lately. 4630 usually is a great thrower but I dont like to use it by itself. Too sooty/smokey for me. Blending the two works well though. What wicks are you using?

 

I have mainly bought from CS and I only buy 5 starred, which usually have the three leafs for soy rating (but I am not a soy chandler...).  Not sure how else I can pick the "higher rated oils"...is there another way? 

I just bought some to from Candlemakers Store as Flicker mentioned and I thought it was awesome that they offered different ratings!!  This made me hopeful.

I keep an eye on the temperatures.  The only mistake I have made is sometimes letting the wax go beyond 195.  seems the temp shoots up after 190.  but I always let it cool to 185 and then add FO, stir to mix, and always pour at 170F.  These instructions have been given to me by CS and IGI.  I have read that some chandlers pour lower but not sure how that would make a difference considering the wax would be cooling in the aluminum pot as opposed to the warm glass container.  Maybe the pot lets it cool slower?

I also usually cover my candles with a cardboard box to let them cool slower.  Not sure that makes a difference?

 

Thanks again for helping and sharing

[Bia]

19 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

 

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. If there is less competition there its much easier for you to stand out than it is in the U.S. They dont have to be luxory candles to do well.

And I agree with Flicker. I have many "cheap" scents that will blow you away. It depends on the FO, wax, process, etc. 

Maybe...but I am entering the market with a "high" price point in a market that doesn't yet have a tendency of spending on candles.

 

35 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

You said most of your oils are from CS and you're having issues? CS is a great supplier. I have many from them, along with NG, AZ, etc.

If you are having lots of issues with throw from these main suppliers, Id double check you are picking higher rated oils as well as double check your

process and ensure you are keeping a keen eye on your temps during mixing and pouring, etc. Even the slightest adjustments sometimes can make a big difference.

 

I see you are using 4630 and 6006. 6006 has been a little spotty lately because its a % of soy which has been inconsistent lately. 4630 usually is a great thrower but I dont like to use it by itself. Too sooty/smokey for me. Blending the two works well though. What wicks are you using?

6006 - I cant believe these companies cant maintain consistency.  They have a formula that is so secretive they can't even tell us the percentages in the product so we can become more knowledgable and know what we are using and they can't abide by their formulas and maintain quality?  they sell sub quality to us and we have to waste our time and money testing.  That's just wrong.

 

4630 - I used 4627 before and I thought I'd end up with a broken wrist.  Switched to easier 4630.  IGI rep told me it had more throw than 6006 but I HAVE noticed a lot of soot! Thank you for sharing this because I thought the problem was my wicking and I was starting to go a little crazy.  I've tried paper core, htp, eco, lx with mostly the same result.  I have realised that if I cut the Eco wick really short before lighting it does not really soot.  But if I don't and the wick is not even that long it soots continually and it's horrible.  Looks like a diseased candle!  And this worries me because we will tell clients to cut wicks short, but we all know most don't.  So basically Eco is not appropriate for clients...

 

Not sure how to resolve this!

[wthomas57]

7 hours ago, Bia said:

 

I have mainly bought from CS and I only buy 5 starred, which usually have the three leafs for soy rating (but I am not a soy chandler...).  Not sure how else I can pick the "higher rated oils"...is there another way? 

I just bought some to from Candlemakers Store as Flicker mentioned and I thought it was awesome that they offered different ratings!!  This made me hopeful.

I keep an eye on the temperatures.  The only mistake I have made is sometimes letting the wax go beyond 195.  seems the temp shoots up after 190.  but I always let it cool to 185 and then add FO, stir to mix, and always pour at 170F.  These instructions have been given to me by CS and IGI.  I have read that some chandlers pour lower but not sure how that would make a difference considering the wax would be cooling in the aluminum pot as opposed to the warm glass container.  Maybe the pot lets it cool slower?

I also usually cover my candles with a cardboard box to let them cool slower.  Not sure that makes a difference?

 

Thanks again for helping and sharing

 

Sounds like you are doing everything right. Maybe wick choice? There are several that work ok in both that waxes, but could be causing your issues. Or maybe you are just no sensitive to smells. Maybe your scents are stronger than you think?

[wthomas57]

7 hours ago, Bia said:

Maybe...but I am entering the market with a "high" price point in a market that doesn't yet have a tendency of spending on candles.

 

6006 - I cant believe these companies cant maintain consistency.  They have a formula that is so secretive they can't even tell us the percentages in the product so we can become more knowledgable and know what we are using and they can't abide by their formulas and maintain quality?  they sell sub quality to us and we have to waste our time and money testing.  That's just wrong.

 

4630 - I used 4627 before and I thought I'd end up with a broken wrist.  Switched to easier 4630.  IGI rep told me it had more throw than 6006 but I HAVE noticed a lot of soot! Thank you for sharing this because I thought the problem was my wicking and I was starting to go a little crazy.  I've tried paper core, htp, eco, lx with mostly the same result.  I have realised that if I cut the Eco wick really short before lighting it does not really soot.  But if I don't and the wick is not even that long it soots continually and it's horrible.  Looks like a diseased candle!  And this worries me because we will tell clients to cut wicks short, but we all know most don't.  So basically Eco is not appropriate for clients...

 

Not sure how to resolve this!

 

Yes, I dont like the soot from either 4630 or 4627. It still exists with 6006 but not as bad. Yes, Eco does have a smoke/soot problem when relit. And you are correct that customers will not trim them often, especially since they curl and dont always look like they need trimmed. I prefer htp over Eco. However, you dind't mention either CD or zinc. CD works well but can also get sooty sometimes. Zinc is perfect in the wax and best HT in my opinion over all. But more mushrooming. Fortunately, mushrooms make it more obvious to customers to trim than do other wicks. Id give both CD and zinc a shot.

[TallTayl]

If you melt the scented wax in a wax melter (like a scentsy for instance), can you smell it?

 

sometimes when I wick too hot the scent burns off before I can smell it. 

[Bia]

4 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

 

Yes, I dont like the soot from either 4630 or 4627. It still exists with 6006 but not as bad. Yes, Eco does have a smoke/soot problem when relit. And you are correct that customers will not trim them often, especially since they curl and dont always look like they need trimmed. I prefer htp over Eco. However, you dind't mention either CD or zinc. CD works well but can also get sooty sometimes. Zinc is perfect in the wax and best HT in my opinion over all. But more mushrooming. Fortunately, mushrooms make it more obvious to customers to trim than do other wicks. Id give both CD and zinc a shot.

I tried CD 16 and 18 with 3"d with 6006 band the flames were really high and obvious soot. I have purchased 12 and 14 and will try them out.

I've heard good things about Zinc's functionality.  I've been hesitant to try because you are burning off metal right?  before it was lead and that was proven to be bad for you after so many years of people using it.  I worry similar news will soon come out about zinc.  How do you feel about this?  Do customers question this?  

Thanks again!

[Bia]

3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

If you melt the scented wax in a wax melter (like a scentsy for instance), can you smell it?

 

sometimes when I wick too hot the scent burns off before I can smell it. 

My melter is a 50lb so I don't test on it.  I usually just use a stove top to test with smaller quantity.  

I usually measure out my FO while the wax is heating and set it aside.  I can smell it evaporating a bit.  When I add it to hot wax, i can definitely smell it more and as I pour and as it cools.  Makes the house smell amazing for hours.  

I then let the candles sit and rest for a few days.  I make a CT conclusion after about 3 days.  Usually if I have no CT, I usually have no HT.  Is that usually the same for everyone? (no ct, no ht?)

I have noticed the FO with vanilla in the mix do better (CT and HT)...

[Bia]

4 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

 

Yes, I dont like the soot from either 4630 or 4627. It still exists with 6006 but not as bad. Yes, Eco does have a smoke/soot problem when relit. And you are correct that customers will not trim them often, especially since they curl and dont always look like they need trimmed. I prefer htp over Eco. However, you dind't mention either CD or zinc. CD works well but can also get sooty sometimes. Zinc is perfect in the wax and best HT in my opinion over all. But more mushrooming. Fortunately, mushrooms make it more obvious to customers to trim than do other wicks. Id give both CD and zinc a shot.

I may have to try the zincs...I was trying to avoid metal but...

I've been using LX for 4630 and Eco for 6006, which soots way too much when wick is not shortly trimmed and I don't want the result of the candle to depend on clients.  I would like my wicks to self-consume, ideally.

[TallTayl]

9 hours ago, Bia said:

My melter is a 50lb so I don't test on it.  I usually just use a stove top to test with smaller quantity.  

I usually measure out my FO while the wax is heating and set it aside.  I can smell it evaporating a bit.  When I add it to hot wax, i can definitely smell it more and as I pour and as it cools.  Makes the house smell amazing for hours.  

I then let the candles sit and rest for a few days.  I make a CT conclusion after about 3 days.  Usually if I have no CT, I usually have no HT.  Is that usually the same for everyone? (no ct, no ht?)

I have noticed the FO with vanilla in the mix do better (CT and HT)...

What I meant is one of those little household plug-in wax diffusers. Or the kind you put a Tealight under for melting tart wax. If it throws in those little household melters and not in the candle it is your wick that is likely the problem

[wthomas57]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

What I meant is one of those little household plug-in wax diffusers. Or the kind you put a Tealight under for melting tart wax. If it throws in those little household melters and not in the candle it is your wick that is likely the problem

Yes, good advise. If still getting poor throw, you could argue its the FO, the wax, or the combination of the two. If its better when in a wax melter, its probably your wick or your process.

[wthomas57]

10 hours ago, Bia said:

I may have to try the zincs...I was trying to avoid metal but...

I've been using LX for 4630 and Eco for 6006, which soots way too much when wick is not shortly trimmed and I don't want the result of the candle to depend on clients.  I would like my wicks to self-consume, ideally.

 

I would try the zincs. There is no indication that zincs are a concern. Of course there is always a risk later on that is found to be untrue. But that risks exists in everything, our oils, our waxes. (Even coy recently has been critiziced and is partly why its being reformulated). You will never know for sure. All you can do is go with what we know now. And, no Ive never had a customer complain about a zinc wire in the wick. I, have always worried about it myself and worried what customers think, but have never once been asked. Take that information how you want. But, you WILL have good throw with zincs and they burn cooler which is also nice. Mushrooms are the only downfall IMO. But at least customers will trim those off before relighting more often then they will trim and Eco that appears like it doesn't need to be trimmed. Then it smokes like a freight train when they relight it.

 

What jars are you using?

[Bia]

10 hours ago, TallTayl said:

What I meant is one of those little household plug-in wax diffusers. Or the kind you put a Tealight under for melting tart wax. If it throws in those little household melters and not in the candle it is your wick that is likely the problem

great idea! i will try one of those!!

[Bia]

9 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

 

I would try the zincs. There is no indication that zincs are a concern. Of course there is always a risk later on that is found to be untrue. But that risks exists in everything, our oils, our waxes. (Even coy recently has been critiziced and is partly why its being reformulated). You will never know for sure. All you can do is go with what we know now. And, no Ive never had a customer complain about a zinc wire in the wick. I, have always worried about it myself and worried what customers think, but have never once been asked. Take that information how you want. But, you WILL have good throw with zincs and they burn cooler which is also nice. Mushrooms are the only downfall IMO. But at least customers will trim those off before relighting more often then they will trim and Eco that appears like it doesn't need to be trimmed. Then it smokes like a freight train when they relight it.

 

What jars are you using?

you have sold me on the zincs ;-)

I am using libber rocks tumblers, with the straight walls.  I've also been using libbey vibe rocks, which I love but will not be able to use in Brazil and those get a bit dirty because the top diameter is smaller than the base.

[wthomas57]

12 hours ago, Bia said:

you have sold me on the zincs ;-)

I am using libber rocks tumblers, with the straight walls.  I've also been using libbey vibe rocks, which I love but will not be able to use in Brazil and those get a bit dirty because the top diameter is smaller than the base.

 

I wouldn't say that yet, you still will want to get your own feel and thoughts on them. I recommended them because they are less finicky than others and perform well most of the time. But they are no savior by any means. You mentioned libbey tumblers. Unfortunately, in my opinion those straight sided tumbler jars are the most difficult to wick (at least with 6006). They struggle sometimes being a little too wide for one wick (especially zinc since its cooler) but they aren't wide enough for 2 wicks. They are in no man's land. So they can be challenging. Most my jars are either a tad less wide and use one wick or larger styles with 2 or 3 wicks. With those tumblers, you may be forced to use something like CD or premier, eco, lx, rrd, etc. Zincs can struggle with that width being single wicked. There are large zincs but to keep up with the width of the jar, they really start getting awfully big mushrooms.