Toxic Fragerances?

[droidus]

I bought some fragrances from a vendor, and on the label, it has these warnings:

...If swallowed, contact poison control.  .... Avoid direct skin contact.  In case of contact wash thoroughly.  Use only in well ventilated area.  For manufacturing use only.  

 

This sounds like some kind of toxic poison that can't be breathed in or touched, nonetheless used in candle making!  Can anyone help me to understand this?  Is this normal?  Can I use these to make candles in an apartment?  The company I bought it from is a Candle company, so that is what they are used for... 

[droidus]

Also, would this have to do anything with this?: https://maplestreetcandle-com.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/ifra/candycorn.pdf

[Sponiebr]

54 minutes ago, droidus said:

I bought some fragrances from a vendor, and on the label, it has these warnings:

...If swallowed, contact poison control.  .... Avoid direct skin contact.  In case of contact wash thoroughly.  Use only in well ventilated area.  For manufacturing use only.  

 

This sounds like some kind of toxic poison that can't be breathed in or touched, nonetheless used in candle making!  Can anyone help me to understand this?  Is this normal?  Can I use these to make candles in an apartment?  The company I bought it from is a Candle company, so that is what they are used for... 

I'm not a chandler but I make soap and I use many, MANY of the same fragrance oils in my soaps as the chandlers here use, mostly because I buy them from candle making suppliers. The FO's (fragrance oils ) are frequently VERY concentrated and much like essential oils (EO's) you don't go rubbing pure EO on your skin either. They're fine to use, in your candles IF you follow the wax recommended usage guidelines and/or the guidelines that IFRA (International Fragrance Association) provides. Honestly, that sheet looks like that particular scent is pretty tame at 19% max usage across the board except for lips, eyes, and internal with no max for fragrance usage. 19% WOW... That's A WHOLE lotta stink to put into a candle. WAY too much in fact. I've seen SOME IFRA sheets where the amounts are <1% (well at least in soap category 9 they were. I personally steer clear of most of those types just becuase if I can't put it in a soap at oh... 3% or so, it's a tad too touchy for me. 

Just a few quick notes, 1. I *personally* won't buy any FO without a certificate of analysis or IFRA guidelines sheet. 2. If you haven't already started, getting REAL familiar with IFRA guidelines will be VERY useful, if an EXTREMELY confusing, learning experience. More on curing insomnia can be found ad nauseum here: http://www.ifraorg.org/. This stuff is important because failing to follow the wax manufactures max usage rates can result in a dangerous to burn candle (e.g. they can become spontaneous molotov cocktails with too much FO in them) 
Last (I'll just head this one off at the gate), Don't sweat the flashpoints... In fact, I wouldn't even think about flashpoints (actually I DON'T even think about them unless it's in regards to HOW I can lower a shipping cost from a supplier) 

Anywho the chandlers here are FAR more experienced in all things candle, and I would listen to them over MY chandlery advice.

HTH, 

Sponiebr: The Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services.  

[moonshine]

Spoiney is correct 

I don't make soap only candles and melts and this is typical and normal of FO 

my suppliers don't state this on the bottles themselves but the msds sheets do have all this information 

some FO's are body safe and others are for candle use only, some contain phthalates and others do not- this is important to some people and not others 

you definitely don't want to use more than the recommended useage rate for your wax and I highly recommend you wear gloves and a respirator with a well ventilated area to work - open windows and have fans running 

these oils are extremely concentrated oob and making them is way more potent than burning them 

 

[moonshine]

I should add....your using a reputable supplier correct?

I wouldn't touch FO from anyplace but 

[droidus]

I bought them from here: http://maplestreetcandle.com/  It looks like they are in compliance....

How are these 'potent'?  What is the worst that could happen when inhaling these?

I used 1 oz. of a scent to make 1 lb (4 candles, 8 oz each).  Does this sound right?

Per this: https://maplestreetcandle-com.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/ifra/candycorn.pdf , I technically could use unlimited fragrance in it (not saying I would do this, but that's what this chart is saying, for candles)?  And if the maximum was 10%, this means a max of 10% of the solution can be FO?

How do I know if a FO is Phthalate-free?

[birdcharm]

6 hours ago, droidus said:

I bought some fragrances from a vendor, and on the label, it has these warnings:

...If swallowed, contact poison control.  .... Avoid direct skin contact.  In case of contact wash thoroughly.  Use only in well ventilated area.  For manufacturing use only.  

 

This sounds like some kind of toxic poison that can't be breathed in or touched, nonetheless used in candle making!  Can anyone help me to understand this?  Is this normal?  Can I use these to make candles in an apartment?  The company I bought it from is a Candle company, so that is what they are used for... 

 

All fragrances are poison prior to being made into something.  This is why they are to be handled with care and regard for the instructions for use.  It doesn't matter if it's a synthetic scent or a natural scent (i.e., essential oil), they are potent chemicals -- no need to fear them as long as you handle them properly -- but if they are not handled properly, they can be a hazard.  Just as with most crafts that include using ingredients of one sort or another, such as glue, paint, lacquer, etc.  Candle making is a science and we use chemicals! 

 

I've always referred to the guidelines that come with any particular wax as to the amount of scent that is safe to use, with the exception of highly concentrated scents, in which case, I would use less than the recommended amount.

 

So, as long as you have read all of the precautions and follow the instructions, there is very little to worry about -- it's better to be overly cautious and take heed of all precautions than to not understand what you're dealing with and be careless with your ingredients.  Regarding phthalate-free ... check with your supplier, they can tell you ... some are and some aren't, depending on how they were mixed.  However, in our modern world, you're never going to get away from phthalates! 

 

 

[droidus]

How are natural scents potent?  

So it's probably not best to do this within an apartment if it's not aerated properly?  

And what causes them to not be potent after making them into something?

[TallTayl]

Have you ever seen the warnings issued for dihydrogen monoxide? That stuff Will kill you.

[Sponiebr]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Have you ever seen the warnings issued for dihydrogen monoxide? That stuff Will kill you.

Oh Gosh yes!  (Ugh) Hydric acid...  It's EVERYWHERE. Acid rain is full of it, it's rusting out cars left and right, yeah... that's another thing to completely avoid in candles. 

On another note... I stopped by Walmart when I got off duty this morning and picked up 40 lbs. of lemons so I should be set... 



 

[droidus]

So there are at least two chemicals listed here to avoid... is there a safe/credible supplier that somebody recommends to purchase FOs from?

Are there candle brands to avoid purchasing from, depending upon the FOs they use?

[birdcharm]

4 hours ago, droidus said:

How are natural scents potent?  

So it's probably not best to do this within an apartment if it's not aerated properly?  

And what causes them to not be potent after making them into something?

 

If you're making candles in a small space, it would be best to keep a couple of windows at least slightly open so you can get a air flow across the area you're working in.  My working area is very small and I typically only pour one, two, or three candles at a time, so it's not really an issue for me -- but, if I was making several candles and doing it all day, then it would be better to have some air flow. 

 

In regard to essential oils, they are all different and each one holds unique properties -- hardly any of them, for instance, should be directly applied to the skin and caution should be used when handling them.  For scents both natural or synthetic, by themselves they could be hazardous if not handled correctly.  For instance, you should never pour candle scent down the drain for several reasons, some of them environmental.  In a finished product, you have diluted the liquid and have incorporated it into wax or whatever else you might be making with it, so it's no longer the same type of potent material since it's then part of something else.  Think of a spice ... let's say cinnamon ... by itself it's pretty nasty stuff and I wouldn't swallow a teaspoon of it ... but sprinkled on something else, it's just fine. 

 

 

[birdcharm]

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Have you ever seen the warnings issued for dihydrogen monoxide? That stuff Will kill you.

 

LOL ... actually, if you drink too much of it, I believe it can!

 

[moonshine]

4 hours ago, droidus said:

How are natural scents potent?  

So it's probably not best to do this within an apartment if it's not aerated properly?  

And what causes them to not be potent after making them into something?

It's good your being cautious and asking questions but your over thinking this a little as well....if you open your windows for air flow and wear a respirator you will be fine - don't use more fragrance than your wax recommends for safety of the burning of the candle

 they are not as potent after making candles because they are diluted in the wax - now if you were to stick a wick in the jar of fragrance and light it I would be a little concerned 

 

natural scents can be just as potent or even more so than man made - essential oils are extremely potent and need to be handled with just as much caution or more imo 

 

if you are directly inhaling these oils after being poured into hot wax on a long term basis it will take a toll on your lungs and other organs- do wear protective equipment and you will be fine 

 

1 ounce per pound of wax is pretty standard And safe to do so - I use 1.25-1.5 ounces per pound but my wax allows for that without seepage or burn issues 

 

all fragrance oils should have a msds sheet online to look to see if it's phatalte free, if not call and ask your supplier - I personally use some that do contain them

 

I have never purchased from maple street so I can't comment on them at all but I would think being a candle supplier they are in compliance with selling fragrance oils to the public 

 

[moonshine]

2 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

LOL ... actually, if you drink too much of it, I believe it can!

 

Lol and so can coke a cola....people clean their toilets with the stuff for crap sake ?

[moonshine]

6 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

If you're making candles in a small space, it would be best to keep a couple of windows at least slightly open so you can get a air flow across the area you're working in.  My working area is very small and I typically only pour one, two, or three candles at a time, so it's not really an issue for me -- but, if I was making several candles and doing it all day, then it would be better to have some air flow. 

 

In regard to essential oils, they are all different and each one holds unique properties -- hardly any of them, for instance, should be directly applied to the skin and caution should be used when handling them.  For scents both natural or synthetic, by themselves they could be hazardous if not handled correctly.  For instance, you should never pour candle scent down the drain for several reasons, some of them environmental.  In a finished product, you have diluted the liquid and have incorporated it into wax or whatever else you might be making with it, so it's no longer the same type of potent material since it's then part of something else.  Think of a spice ... let's say cinnamon ... by itself it's pretty nasty stuff and I wouldn't swallow a teaspoon of it ... but sprinkled on something else, it's just fine. 

 

 

Ha 

you must of been replying when I was 

To the OP ...what birdcharm says also ?

[droidus]

12 hours ago, moonshine said:

they are not as potent after making candles because they are diluted in the wax

 

So each one does have a potency, so doesn't it add up if you burn 10, 15, 20 candles (not saying all at once)?

Also, if I asked my supplier for a ingredients/chemicals list, is this something usually they are able to freely share?

[Sponiebr]

1 hour ago, droidus said:

So each one does have a potency, so doesn't it add up if you burn 10, 15, 20 candles (not saying all at once)?

Also, if I asked my supplier for a ingredients/chemicals list, is this something usually they are able to freely share?

If you are talking about the accumulation of toxins. No. 
And the FO manufacturer is unlikely to share the exact composition of their fragrance. 

[moonshine]

They should be able to provide you with a safety data sheet on the fragrance listing useage rates and bath and body safe...that kind of stuff- like spoiney said they won't share the entire chemical composition of the fragrance, that's theirs and highly protected from being able to be duplicated 

when I say potency I am referring to smells - all smells have a smell and some are stronger than others 

you will find some candles you make are very strong and some you may not smell hardly at all - that's potency and fragrance oil straight out of the bottle going into hot wax before it's diluted in the wax and cured is way more potent when making them as opposed  to burning them 

so when your asking does it add up? As far as toxins I really can't say but the amount is so minute and probably less than bleaching your shower every week 

some people chose to burn candles and others don't - some have sensitivity to fragrance or soy or palm or paraffin and others do not but I have to agree with spoiney and say no - not anymore than any other commercial product you use in your house with fragrance or not 

Edited August 6, 2017 by moonshine

[birdcharm]

19 hours ago, moonshine said:

Ha 

you must of been replying when I was 

To the OP ...what birdcharm says also ?

 

That's funny also because each of us shared a little something different, but also many similar thoughts, so there was a "built in" second opinion.

 

[birdcharm]

6 hours ago, droidus said:

So each one does have a potency, so doesn't it add up if you burn 10, 15, 20 candles (not saying all at once)?

Also, if I asked my supplier for a ingredients/chemicals list, is this something usually they are able to freely share?

 

Even if the recipe was to be shared, which it won't be, there would be no point to try to decipher it. 

 

It's like perfume -- the maker isn't going to share the ingredients and even if they did, what would it really tell you?  In most cases, it would simply cause confusion. 

 

My advice to you is to make unscented candles and then you are only dealing with the wax, the container, the wick, and perhaps some colorant -- but then again, you don't know what is in the colorant, so maybe that should be left out.  As for the wax and any toxins it may hold, you might wish to go with beeswax or coconut wax in order to minimize those types of things.

 

[TallTayl]

If you looked at the MSDS for the Chemicals in your home you would see quite a few that are equally scary. 

 

Look at the MSDS for baking spray. Or laundry detergent. Or bleach. Or bath soap. Or shampoo. Or perfume.Or dishwashing detergent. All chemicals can be dangerous if misused. 

 

My dihydrogen monoxide comment above was to pull your leg a little. Dihydrogen monoxide is water. That stuff will kill you if you drink too much or submerge yourself for too long. It will burn you if it's too hot. It's not the poison it's the dose.