TallTayl Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I, like many of you, have been a total glutton for punishment by sticking with soy wax for so long. Each case of wax is so inconsistent within brands from the same supplier I have to re-test my candles constantly. Have made and test burned over 50 this past month to find that most do not perform as they have so reliably in the past. we have come to accept that soy wax has issues in the looks department with tops only the mother can love. we accept the advice that we must wait weeks before knowing if a scent might possibly throw in our wax. Who the heck has that kind of time? we accept inferior hot throw ounce for ounce against many other waxes. (I have purchased many, many, many from popular sellers on etsy and other sites to compare). we accept we must use more fragrance to compete with thrifty waxes that throw almost without trying. Soy wax manufacturers reformulate on a whim or just pull from the marketplace. We small chandlers are a minor market to them, so what do they care? retailers love soy because they sell loads more fragrance. am working on alternatives for containers because this is just plain getting old. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belinda Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I don't make candles (or not to sell) and I've always wondered why some choose all soy after reading how it's a little more difficult to work with than paraffin or a paraffin blend. Then I got a candle from Trap with the Fall exchange last year and it was so pretty and smelled so good and I understood why soy could be a wax of choice to some. I didn't realize all the other issues were possible with this wax though. Have you ever used 6006? I'm sure you probably have being an experienced chandler. I've just read some good things about it on here. I hope you find a great wax to replace what you already use. I know you've worked hard and put in countless hours of testing to get it right and I'm so sorry you and other soy users are having such issues with the wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 I stuck with it because of one simple reason: marketing. Customers believe soy to be best, and that is what they buy. It is so easy to fall down the rabbit hole buying up all the different waxes and wicks. Every time someone extolls the virtues of their wax I buy a couple of slabs. And the whole series of wicks that supposedly work best in that wax. it is exhausting! I have not tried 6006, and am wary of yet one more case on the shelf. :-/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, Belinda said: Have you ever used 6006? I'm sure you probably have being an experienced chandler. I've just read some good things about it on here. I hope you find a great wax to replace what you already use. I know you've worked hard and put in countless hours of testing to get it right and I'm so sorry you and other soy users are having such issues with the wax. 6006 users are noting similar problems. This is becoming curioser and curioser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I feel your pain. After starting out with paraffin I could never really cozy up to 100% soy. Way too finicky for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 You are a palm candle maker still, yes? I am blending some palm wax with soy in a line up of 10 burning today. rant update: i have a hypothesis about this year's soy wax. I had to wick up several sizes to achieve a half way decent burn. As I tested Egyptian Dragon and Frankincense& Myrrh I noticed they burned powerfully well with the CD16 even though it does not burn to the edges in a tin during the first couple of burns. The ED was so strong it scented the entire bedroom end of the house and was creeping down the hall toward the other end. Mental note to scale back, but lightbulb!! those are two scents I usually have to wick up 2 sizes for to get any throw. This wax, being hard to burn, has to be wicked pretty hot. Too hot for most of my fragrances. A full melt pool burns off any hope of hot throw. CT is perfectly great and strong. The first hour of burn is usually fine. At the FMp mark the wheels fall off the wagon. Conclusion, the wax needs to be wicked in such a way as to complete the wax, but not burn off the FO. That for me means either a wood wick or double wicking my tins. I don't love double wicking, especially small containers. But, made a group of 10 to do a knockout test on. The double wicked cd-3 and cd-4 tins began throwing almost immediately at 1 day cure. The CD-3 have delicate flames and are consuming less wax than the CD-4 but the MP widths are nearly the same. HT is acceptable so far. Will keep testing to be sure they don't get too hot further down. Feeling: hopeful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 One of the main reasons I don't make candles to sell anymore. I make only melts for sale and candles for myself and my family. I was so tired of fighting with each "batch" difference. I got lucky for about 6 years straight and then the nightmare started again. I'm too old, lol. With melts it's minor, with a wick it's a major pain! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I lost my patience with soy many years ago! I switched to palm and never looked back. Although I have dabbled with 4786 a few times, but it was too sooty for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, pcbrook said: I lost my patience with soy many years ago! I switched to palm and never looked back. Although I have dabbled with 4786 a few times, but it was too sooty for me. I have several palm versions. Do you find one better than others for small containers? does not help that mytins are wider than tall. Total pain in the hiney for most waxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 23 minutes ago, pcbrook said: I lost my patience with soy many years ago! I switched to palm and never looked back. Although I have dabbled with 4786 a few times, but it was too sooty for me. May I ask which palm wax you use ? I have some feather wax at home but I don't believe its made for containers ? Can you recommend a wick series to try with palm. Most of my jars are other under 3 "( 2.5) or about 3" in diamater. I think Im going to try out the palm wax, Ive heard so many great reviews about it. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I started out with glass glow until I found out feather palm works and looks the same. And I could get it from Bittercreek which is only 3 hours away so shipping is cheap. I was surprised to find it works fine in containers. I use pint Mason jars and the square 1/2 pints. When you have a wick in it doesn't rattle. For me the premier wicks work the best in my jars. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Thanks ! Ive been wanting to try out the palm wax for quite some time. Thanks for inspiring me to try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 As long as you have some feather palm on hand you might as well give it a try! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belinda Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 11:17 AM, TallTayl said: 6006 users are noting similar problems. This is becoming curioser and curioser. Oh wow. I wonder if it's the soy that's in there or an issue with the manufacturer. Whichever it is I sure do hope it's resolved soon. I know you and all the soy and 6006 users are too. I really hate this for y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I never could fall even in 'like' with soy. I even tried the parasoy blends, and tried blending soy in with my paraffin myself, and still just did not like it. I think it may be because I'm lazy, or like the easy way out - IDK but I've never really had to fight with my wax, and I *LOVE* it. So I will keep it just the way it is, until they stop making it (which I feel will be soon since IGI has bought them out and only a handful of suppliers still carry it) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Way back when I started containers with J233. It threw very well, but could soot if not careful. Then switched when the J waxes were sold and changed. Went with soy since it was the thing to do and did Ok for a while. It sure is expensive and time consuming to master as opposed to other waxes. None of the waxes are immune from reformulation ?, but geez why so wildly different when changing hands? Cost to manufacture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Jcandleattic said: I never could fall even in 'like' with soy. I even tried the parasoy blends, and tried blending soy in with my paraffin myself, and still just did not like it. I think it may be because I'm lazy, or like the easy way out - IDK but I've never really had to fight with my wax, and I *LOVE* it. So I will keep it just the way it is, until they stop making it (which I feel will be soon since IGI has bought them out and only a handful of suppliers still carry it) May I ask what wax you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 50 minutes ago, pcbrook said: May I ask what wax you use? J50 which is now classified as IGI 4636. I know this is a blend and doesn't need additives, however, I do have a blend of additives that I do use in it, that help with my applications. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 0:09 PM, TallTayl said: I stuck with it because of one simple reason: marketing. Customers believe soy to be best, and that is what they buy... You know that was the reasoning I used when I went from paraffin to soy. I started using soy because I believed that was what the customers wanted. But I discovered when I switched from soy to palm that that was not exactly true. Anyway, I ended up getting awful skin rashes from soy and knew I had to switch once again. So that was when I decided to try out palm container waxes. I eventually switched to palm and I will never go back. I simply tell my customers the selling points of palm and why I like it so much. Once I get them to try one of my candles they always come back. I really think it boils down to how good a sales person you are and the quality of your candle to back it up. I know I have personally changed the attitudes of many soy only customers who came back excited about what a great candle the palm candle was. But seriously that has to do with a well made candle... Sales wise I think I can sell an Eskimo a truckload of ice. They just don't know how much they need it until they talk to me. LOL! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 . I wish I could sell like that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Candybee said: You know that was the reasoning I used when I went from paraffin to soy. I started using soy because I believed that was what the customers wanted. But I discovered when I switched from soy to palm that that was not exactly true. Anyway, I ended up getting awful skin rashes from soy and knew I had to switch once again. So that was when I decided to try out palm container waxes. I eventually switched to palm and I will never go back. I simply tell my customers the selling points of palm and why I like it so much. Once I get them to try one of my candles they always come back. I really think it boils down to how good a sales person you are and the quality of your candle to back it up. I know I have personally changed the attitudes of many soy only customers who came back excited about what a great candle the palm candle was. But seriously that has to do with a well made candle... Sales wise I think I can sell an Eskimo a truckload of ice. They just don't know how much they need it until they talk to me. LOL! What kind of palm do you use Candy? I too am having trouble, with the 415- this years lot and I'm mad as all h**l I started with soy - I love soy but if this is how it's going to be, which is sounds like a manufacturing problem seeing other soys are not performing the same I can't keep testing every new case and coming up with different wicks everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Candybee said: You know that was the reasoning I used when I went from paraffin to soy. I started using soy because I believed that was what the customers wanted. But I discovered when I switched from soy to palm that that was not exactly true. Anyway, I ended up getting awful skin rashes from soy and knew I had to switch once again. So that was when I decided to try out palm container waxes. I eventually switched to palm and I will never go back. I simply tell my customers the selling points of palm and why I like it so much. Once I get them to try one of my candles they always come back. I really think it boils down to how good a sales person you are and the quality of your candle to back it up. I know I have personally changed the attitudes of many soy only customers who came back excited about what a great candle the palm candle was. But seriously that has to do with a well made candle... Sales wise I think I can sell an Eskimo a truckload of ice. They just don't know how much they need it until they talk to me. LOL! You are so funny It seems like many I've asked that use palm seem to have good success with Premiere wicks. Which wick series do you use if you don't mind me asking of course . Im really considering giving palm a go - I've got nothing to loose by trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Moonstar & Moonshine-- I use crystal container palm and sometimes glass glow. My wick choice is CSN from CS. Glass glow is the prettiest but I find crystal container palm performs the same and is cheaper. I get crystal container palm for from Candlewic or Candles & Supplies, and Glass Glow from Peaks or Candles and Supplies. I buy from these places because they are within driving distance for me so I can save on shipping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Thanks Candy! I may give it a try or at the very least adding it 415 to see what I get 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerywren Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I started with soy because I believed the hype. When it gave me frosting and wet spots and moon crater tops AND didn't have hot throw at all, I started tweaking. Now I use a 60/40 blend of 464 and 4630. As I mentioned in another thread. I label my candles as a soy blend. I have had exactly one customer ask what that meant and when I said, "It's a blend of soy and paraffin waxes", their eyes glazed over and they bought the candle any way. No one gives a crap in my neck of the woods. I'm a full time RN and soap and candle in my spare time. I don't have time to fiddle and coddle my ingredients. Edited June 27, 2017 by Faerywren 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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