Getting started

[DalekSlayer]

Hello,

 

I recently stumbled upon these forums after a long exhuastive search through many defunct and likely well outdated others. My wife and I are interested in trying our hand in the candle/soap making hobby, with a possibility of turning it into a small business. I have done a fair bit of research so far and worst case, it becomes an addictive hobby that teaches our kids some additional life skills. We recently are redoing the basement into a craft/workshop zone, so I feel comfortable about the space needed to work with. I do have a few questions to help us get started.

 

I would like to start out using soy wax, since it seems to be largely associated as a environmentally friendly product and looks to be readily available close by. We will be making container candles using tin containers around 4 to 6 oz sized. we would like to have good throw both hot and cold and the wax to accept dyes. As far as dyes go, its not the most important. As long as it accepts a slight tint that we and others can associate a color with a smell.  My questions about soy are these.

 

- 2% additives - I see this in some of the Soy blends out there. What exactly comprises the 2%. They don't seem to be transparent on that 2% in the package details.

- Are there and soy wax manufacturers that obtain their soy from farms that are not using neonicotinoids?

- I have looked at a few brands, EcoSoya and GW - These seem to be the ones mentioned the most. are there others I am missing? or is there preference that seems commonplace among the community here? I was leaning toward the 464 it seems to be available close by in Ohio.

 

Our other questions are more about initial start up and additional knowledge. This forum is by far the best source of chandlery(is that right?) knowledge I have found so far. We have watched videos and read through many instructables. I understand that different environments and variables will affect each candle makers experience differently. In order to prepare ourselves against this I am hoping these questions will help.

 

- Starting from nothing, is it worth getting a starter kit with the pour pot, thermometer, molds, tins... My experience has been starter kits are usually low quality tools at a cheap cost. We are not loaded by any means but I still would like to get decent tools.

- Single Burners - Anyone tried these? Coils vs Flat? something like this to head the double boiler? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Oster-Single-Burner-Black/24183268

- Are there any recommended books and magazines for beginners and for keeping up with the Joneses?

- Trade publications for info about waxes and oils?

- Guilds. I saw there is a guild which allows sells insurance to chandlers. How many of you have insurance, or belong to a candle making organization?

- Oh and suppliers. I am in west somewhat southwest Ohio. I have found one place in Hamilton which is reasonably close, about a 30 minute drive if I needed to. Are there other suppliers anyone can recommend for our section of the Midwest? some of the suppliers listed on the supplier list are no longer there and to be honest I got to the C's found one and gave up on the list lol.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to and appreciate any responses.

 

 

[Guest OldGlory]

I'll try to get some questions answered and hope some others will chime in too.

Realistically, you can expect to take an average of 6 months to learn to make a good, safe, dependable candle. You can also expect to spend $500-$1000 getting to that point. You can read thru the hundreds of newbie threads and get a good idea of the frustrations, costs, and honestly you will get a good idea of where they derail. This craft requires dogged persistence, some scientific tendencies, and a high degree of organization. That's not all - just what comes to mind at the moment.

 

I use 464, have used it for many years, with a high degree of success (ie, satisfied customers who return for the same product). This wax requires no additives. It is already formulated correctly. Disregard OLD BOOKS and old sources of information. Candle making has come a long way in the last 10/20 years.

 

If you think you want to run your first few dozen candles as a trial, to see if you might want to pursue this craft, buy a kit. Peak, the sponsor of this message board I believe offers a kit. If you want to just dive in, you can choose your wax, containers, fragrances, wicks, dyes, and various other supplies. You decide how whether or not you want to dive into the deep end of the pool.

I suggest a presto pot in which to melt your wax, and a few aluminum pour pots, some wooden skewers to stir with, and digitial thermometer. An electric burner (eye), any type, or an electric griddle will remelt what has cooled in the pour pot. You will learn quickly that you should reheat wax slowly to keep the integrity of the fragrance and to not scorch the wax.

Wax is expensive to ship. Find the closest source of wax, hopefully where you can drive and pick up a few cases at a time.

Read the Fragrance Discussion category front to back, and make notes of which ones work in 464. Start with those fragrances.

Good luck and... PATIENCE!

[franu61]

Nature's Garden is a great supplier, they are in Wellington Ohio..don't know how far that is from you.  Good luck and enjoy!

[candlesncats]

Sent you a  message

[Trappeur]

I ditto what Old Glory said!

 

This forum is the place to be to learn and answer all your questions.  There is such a wealth of knowledge here it is unbelievable.  And like Old Glory said it is not a craft that you learn over night.  Use the search box all the time that is above here and put in all your questions.  And I can't stress enough to read backwards and forwards all the catagories on learning that are posted here.  You will find that what works for 1 person does not always mean will work for you.  You will learn as you go.

 

One thing we see all the time on the forum here is people who have 2,3, 4 waxes that they have picked out and are testing to see which one they will like.  That's way too much.  Get "1" wax and learn from that one.  You have selected 464.  That is a very popular wax. easy to work with and performs beautiful.  I would say start with that wax and "stick" with it and really really learn about it and do your testings.  If you are going to color the wax using dye note that you will have frosting...that is a characteristic thing of soy and you will have to embrace it.  Wet spots as you will see posts from others is another thing you will have to embrace.  But you will learn this as you go along.

 

And once you have made a candle....know that if you do not let that candle sit and cure for a certain length of time, you just aren't going to get a true accurate great throwing candle.  You will see all sorts of answeres from so many people here on how each and every one of us let our candles cure.  For me, it's 2 weeks.... And t WILL make a difference in how great and strong that scent is and it will also determine what wick you will finally end up using for what ever jar you have selected.

 

We see so many starting out where they always say that the cold throw is great but not the hot.  If they would just give the wax a chance to cure and absorb the oils, they would see the big difference.  It is so hard and frustrating to have to wait I know, but if you truly want to go into this venture the right way, then experiment and read up what up what everyone suggests.  And know that even if you wait for your candle to throw and it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you have done something wrong.  It may be that the fragrance you selected is just not a good throwing fragrance for that wax.  That is why you have to test.  And some fragrances are just not a strong scent, but a softer one.  Also too, when testing you have to consider the size of the room where you are burning that candle.  A small jar in a huge room depending on the fragrance is just not going to cut it I have found.  It just depends.  

 

I've never bought a kit, but that is a great idea for a starting point.

 

When you get going on your new venture, it is always great to post pictures so we can help and make suggestions along the way.

And if you can state what style jar and size it is and the names of the fragrance oils and where you got it from, that is another great way for help.

 

These are just my suggestions to add to this post.  I hope others will come along and post their findings.  What I do is not necessarily the always right way as everyone does their own thing.  But these are the basics.

 

Good luck and nice to meet you.

 

Trappeur 

[Guest OldGlory]

I thought of more suggestions-

 

I would recommend starting with a few well selected fragrance oils, and learning to perfect those first. Different types of oils, like 1) a light fruity type like peach, 2) a christmas tree, 3) a bakery scent like pie, cake, or cookies, will give you 3 distinct odors. They will be easily distinguishable when you are testing for fragrance throw. There are lots of oils that work well in 464, and as stated before, you can find those in the Fragrance Discussion category. There is a temptation to want to buy as many oils as you can get your hands on, and this message board will only encourage that!! Start small and build your arsenal a few oils at a time. Buying oils willynilly can be a huge waste of money.

 

Be sure to work in a well ventilated space. This will help your ability to detect scents. Get out of the room where you are making candles as often as possible. Open windows to air out the room as soon as your candles are cooled. These are chemicals you are working with. Sometimes your sense of smell will be overwhelmed and you will think your candle isn't throwing well when in fact it's your nose that isn't working.

 

Find some reliable people to test candles for you. Give them full size candles and have them keep notes.

[Trappeur]

Boy, if I had a supplier that I could drive to to save shipping I sure would take advantage of that.  I would make that company "my company".  I would find my wax with what they had to offer and I would make it work.....might be a lot of testing but well worth it in the end.

 

Trappeur

[DalekSlayer]

Hello,

 

Thank you all very much for all the suggestions and information! I hadn't come across the Presto Pot in my initial research. How is it? are there issues with the spigot cooling and getting clogged between pours? As a former smoker I am well aware of nose blindness, now that I have quit I smell all sorts of things I was oblivious to before. Ignoring strength of throw do you find that some scents mutate or change  after exposed? I see that varying temps can affect an FO's throw but can it's affect it's strength/absorbency, but does it change how the smell compares from the bottle?

 

We are definitely going to take all you suggestions and start out small, with 2 or 3 scents and work from a kit first. It seems to be the more financially responsible method (or so I am being reminded lol). I believe we are going to settle on the 464. I was a just wondering what was in that 2% additive. Is it like vybar, or something to promote throw, or prevent frosting? Because, candle making is a big trial and error process, is there a typical excel spreadsheet or word document that everyone uses to track information and changes or is that just DIY sort of thing? Like a checklist to give friends and family that agree to be testers.

 

@franu61 - Thanks, Unfortunately that's fair bit north for me. I am actually closer to Cincinnati (about 30/35 min from there). It looks like thecandlemakersstore.com is the closest supplier to me. The wax prices seem to be extremely competitive so I will give them a shot as a wax supplier. I think Peak has more of what I am looking for out of a kit, with the pour pot, thermometer, etc. So we'll give them a look too.

 

Only last question I promise lol. Wicks, is there a starting guide that helps hone in close to the right size, then just trial and error to dial in the final size. I putting together our own wicks, and buying the rope and metal separate.

 

Thanks again

[Guest OldGlory]

My presto pot doesn't have a spigot. I bought it from Walmart - maybe $30 or so. I would be lost without it!

 

Scents mutate after being exposed... do you mean after they are burning in a candle? Yes, some do. Candle fragrance oils are intended to be used in wax with heat, and some really come alive with the heat. Some notes in a scent only come alive with heat. That may answer your next question too. What you smell in the bottle is often just half of the equation.

 

Additive could be vybar, UV stabilizer, soy additive, stearic acid - no telling what the author of whatever you are reading had in mind. Fragrance oil could be considered an additive since candles can be made without it.

 

If you are using dyes, be prepared for frosting, and learn to embrace it or learn do live without dyes.

 

I use a notebook (spiral) to keep notes, not a spreadsheet or computer program. There might be a list on here somewhere suggesting questions to give to your testers but I'm not sure.

 

I would recommend buying Premier wicks instead of trying to make your own, at least at first. Wicking is going to be your worst nightmare for a while. Premier wicking offers the most number of different sizes of all wicking brands, so it's pretty easy to find a really good wick for the container you decide to use. I have used Premier wicks in my soy 464 candles for many years. Aztec in Knoxville, TN carries a good selection of Premiers.

[kandlekrazy]

wickit.net had a guide for all the different wicks and what sizes to start with based on jar diameter.

[DalekSlayer]

Awesome Thank you, I think I will take your advice and start work with prefab wicks. I'm not to worried about frosting, if we do dye, I want to try just the faintest tinges of colors. We'll see, once we start playing around. With the holidays coming up we are going to spend the next month researching, reading, and picking up things here and there and work on getting our workspace in order. ​There is a ton on information here that will keep me busy I am trying to convince my wife to get some lab coats for when we finally get to do some testing lol.

 

When we finally do test, I will likely work up some spreadsheet or table in word for testing results. Then make a 2nd one for QA testers (friends/family) to make notes on. I may work on these before we get to actual testing and ask for any input on them

 

Thanks

[chuck_35550]

This would be my starting inventory:  The Presto is best (forget the double boiler method) but an old tempered glass coffee carafe on a stove eye will do for starters, a good digital thermometer (forget candy thermometers-I use an oven thermometer with the probe on a silver cord), a slab of wax, a box of 8 ounce jelly jars (straight sided, not wide mouth), a bag of sample wicks (different sizes), a dozen one ounce tester fragrances of your choice, an old high temp plastic or silicone slotted spoon for stirring and last but not least a really good digital scale (don't cheap out) and make sure when you're doing your Dr. Frankenstein routine that you keep pets and children out of the area and turn on some ventilation. You could get all into colorants, labels (and you will get into much more than that) but learn the wax and see how it behaves with different fragrances and different wicks. That's the cheapest way I know to start out and take it easy and have fun. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher just in case you flame on but I have never had to use mine, so don't get scared. You are entering a very over saturated market and the best you can hope for is to find a niche and fill it. Talk to the folks at Peaks and get feedback. Oh, and get a heat gun.

[bfroberts]

Just a few thoughts from a relative newbie....
My heat gun came from Harbor Freight for less than $15.  Life saver.

This forum is, bar none, the best resource online.  Bad info is rampant on Pinterest, blogs, FB, etc.

I can't speak for all, but my suppliers advice and recommendations have been spot on almost every single time.  Don't hesitate to ask.

I found it more economical for my purposes to purchase several of the $1 bags of 12 wicks from Aztec to get started.  I bought the size and type they recommended (Premier) for my container, plus 3 sizes up and 3 sizes down.  They also allow you to purchase 5 1oz sample FO's for $5 once a month with coupon code.  They will use USPS so shipping of small items is very reasonable.  Also, Tennessee Candle Sup. will allow 1st timers to purchase 20 1oz FO's for $20 with code.  Their shipping is reasonable also. 

 

About those burners, if you decide to go the double boiler route, I would go with a Waring single burner unit.  I've never had any luck with the cheaper types (we've gone thru a lot of these burners in our main business).  They are around $50 on Amazon, so a Presto pot from WM would actually be cheaper.  However, I still find that double boiler....I use a lg. pour pot in a small stock pot on my kitchen stove..... is actually easier for doing small pours, testing, etc.
Good luck!

 

[Trappeur]

Aztec and Tennessee Candle have awesome fragrances!  That is a wize choice for getting oils there.  And when Candle Science has their sale of samples for $1.00 each...I'd get some there as their oils are beautiful. CS shipping stinks.....but the oils are wonderful......Lately I've been getting a lot of oils from Flaming who has awesome shipping prices too so there are a few good choice I recommend.

 

Trappeur

Edited November 18, 2015 by Trappeur

[Trappeur]

A few things I forgot to mention....

 

Reasons why I love the following companies:

 

Tennessee Candle:

1.  Great shipping prices.

2.  The best sales out of any supplier I have seen.  They have them often and they are super duper!

3.  I didn't realize they have a reward/point system.  Every time you buy something you get a certain amount of points to get free things.  I didn't realize I have 2 more points to go to get a free 16oz bottle of fragrance. Make sure you sign up for their mailing list as they email you every time you place an order and tell you how many points you earned.

4.  Super customer service.

5.  They have the cheapest 464 I have seen yet.  

 

Aztec:

1.  Great shipping.

2.  Sign up for their newsletter and mailings as they have a sale every single day and tell you what it is and will send to your email box.

3.  Every month you get to buy 5 fragrances for 1.00 each and for each pound of fragrance you order you get a free sample.

4.  Super customer service.

 

Flaming:

1.  Great shipping 

2.  Sign up for their news letter.

3.  They really don't have any sales but I love their shipping and customer service.

4.  They have some really nice oils....of course all the companies have duds so you have to pick and choose.

 

Candle Science:

1.  Their shipping stinks but you just can't beat their fragrance oils and I can't replace some of what they have.  

2.  Again sign up for the newsletter.

3.  They don't have sales but every now and then they have just the sample sale where you can buy them for 1.00 each and I recommend you try some of their oils.

 

These are my findings....

 

Trappeur

[Jcandleattic]

Boy, if I had a supplier that I could drive to to save shipping I sure would take advantage of that.  I would make that company "my company".  I would find my wax with what they had to offer and I would make it work.....might be a lot of testing but well worth it in the end.

 

Trappeur

This is why I consider Peak "my supplier" because I am so close to them. When I drive from work, it takes me less than 2 minutes to get there... 

[DalekSlayer]

Thanks again for all of the replies. It's been really helpful!

[C Dizzle]

I have also found this quite helpful. I do have one question, when you use the Presto pot how do you use it exactly? I have these pouring pitchers:

 

https://www.candlescience.com/equipment/pouring-pitcher

 

So do I just set the pouring pitcher inside the Presto pot? Or do I put water in it, then the pitcher, or something else entirely?

 

Also, what heat setting do you use?

 

I'm using a griddle on a low heat and it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Dalekslayer, I have taken the plunge recently and spent a bit more than I would like but I have been getting some results I do like. I've made about 20lbs of wax and I haven't been able to test all these yet, but I made 10 lbs worth one day testing out various colors, scents, wicks, and jars, and I have attached what I ended up with. The room I took the picture in has no windows and thus no natural light, so the pic's colors are lighter and different. The pink, brown, and green are almost the same in real life, but the "blue" you see is actually a deep, pretty purple (LSU purple) and the orange is a neon orange.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153637211021877&set=a.10150350471291877.367606.513526876&type=3

[Guest OldGlory]

Most of us melt wax directly in the presto pot, then scoop it out with something and put it in your pouring pitcher - I use a glass jar with a handle on it. I add fragrance and dye to the pouring pitcher.

Buy the size you think best suits your needs. Follow the manufacturers suggestion on what temp to melt the wax.

[Trappeur]

I looked at your candles on face book.  Great job and colors!  Y

And you found your wick so soon?  Wow....good for you....Have you tested them out for wicks and throw?  If you don't mind me asking, what size wick did you find worked for you in the small and large jars?

 

I also saw your selling them this weekend?  omg!!!

 

Trappeur

Edited November 28, 2015 by Trappeur

[C Dizzle]

I actually started several months ago but had been very slow going until Monday. I have a lot of candles here that I haven't tested but I also refuse to sell the untested ones unless they want it for decoration or cold throw and aren't burning them. It's also dead here anyways so it hasn't been an issue. We are waiting til we have more thorough testing before we come back.

On the status jars the ones that have tested fine with wick and hot throw were ECO 14 the 3 inch diameter jhars and the 2 Oz status that worked well were ECO 4.

I also hadn't read before I made these about tempering and also noticed some add coconut oil? So I'm definitely willing to redo these and test more.

We had committed to this show long ago and I knew we weren't ready but didn't want to let down all the people, including my wife, who wanted it to happen. So I'm just turning away people if interested in an untested jar, and I'm good with that compromise

[C Dizzle]

It was so dead we only had 2 people even come look, so that worked out.

Trappeur, I read somewhere that you normally use CD 14 or 16 for the 3" diameter status. Is that correct? My ECOs either seem slightly too hot or not hot enough. I'll get great scent throw and it's burning slightly hot and tunneling sometimes with a 14, and that's just confusing.

[Guest OldGlory]

I will let Trappeur respond about the wicks since I don't use those. Learning to correctly wick a candle is, in my opinion, the hardest aspect of making decent candles. It is why a lot of people don't sell candles - they can't get the wicking right. With natural waxes, it takes the candle a few days to "set up", and if you test burn for wick performance you will find that the wax/wick combination changes during the first 3 or 4 days. We have documented it. Then, you must burn the candle in 3 ish hour increments for the entire depth of the candle because... the wicking needs change at the bottom half of the candle. If you don't take that into account you will have a little inferno and the chances of someone burning their hand goes up dramatically. There are pages and pages written on this message board about the trials and tribulations of wicking if you're interested. But persistence can eventually pay off.

[Jcandleattic]

 

 

I have a lot of candles here that I haven't tested but I also refuse to sell the untested ones unless they want it for decoration or cold throw and aren't burning them.

You have no control over what someone will do with your candle once they buy it. Even if they say they are not going to burn it, if there is a wick in it, the potential is there. Or yes, "they" may not, but they could give it as a gift and someone else will. 

 

Unless you test everything you sell extensively before selling you are setting yourself up for a risk. I'm not sure why you are willing to take that risk, but that's just me. 

[Trappeur]

It was so dead we only had 2 people even come look, so that worked out.

Trappeur, I read somewhere that you normally use CD 14 or 16 for the 3" diameter status. Is that correct? My ECOs either seem slightly too hot or not hot enough. I'll get great scent throw and it's burning slightly hot and tunneling sometimes with a 14, and that's just confusing.

Yes, most of the fragrance I use a cd14.  Harder to wick fragrances (heavier) a 16.....and even some lighter weight a 12.  It just all depends......but I test extensively.  I sell to shops and it is very crucial that I find the correct wick.  You are playing with someones life with the way people burn candles today with the possibility of a glass cracking or shattering with too intense a flame causing a possible inferno as Old Glory said if you YOU DO'N'T perfect your wick.  What if some kid picked up the jar if it was too hot and he/she let it slip out of her hand from it being too hot and it hit the floor and the hot wax bounced up all over them?  Is that worth it?  I shutter when I think of this.  I take the candle business very very seriously.    Just the other day I made a candle in one of my larger jars where I triple wick and was trying out new fragrance of which I have always used 3 cd 5's...Man oh man that container was hot...so now I need maybe 3 cd 4's or I'm thinking I could get a way with 2 wicks instead of 3, so now all the testing starts over.  It is very very time consuming but that is the name of this game...It took me over a year b/4 I knew I was ready and confident to sell to the public.  Others I'm sure took less time.

 

When I looked at your beautiful colored candles and then started reading further on facebook of all the people who wanted to buy and place orders when you had just started making candles,  I h ave to admit I really cringed and really worried as you just had started making candles.  I don't mean to hurt your feelings in any way so please don't take it that way.....but in all honesty I truly believe they shouldn't have been put out to the public for sale, not at this time.  It doesn't matter that you felt obligated and committed  to do the show and I know you didn't want to let anyone down but it sure wouldn't have been a good thing to sell to someone and have a tragedy happen if you haven't perfected your candle with the proper wicking.  You know what I mean?  I know I'm being blunt here, but I don't know how else to say it.  I also agree with what JC said about you don't know what people are going to do with a candle once it leaves your hands,  After all, who is going to buy a candle with a wick in it and not burn it?  Doesn't make sense to me..

 

I hope I didn't scare you off from coming here to the board as I did come off a bit blunt, but we are all here to learn and help one another.  We have all been here and done that and still do it.  It's great to meet new people who want to venture into this beautiful art of crafting gorgeous creations of all different sorts of candle light.  I love it. I hope you will stick around.

 

There are so many gifted people here on this board and the learning just never stops.  I learn something everyday!  

 

Trappeur