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Tempering soy wax


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Guest OldGlory

There are several types of soy wax on the market. Which type are you using? What type of container are you using? At what temperature do you pour your wax, and what is the mfg suggested pouring temp? That info will help us help you.

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I'm using a combo of c-3 and coconut wax that contains soy. the coconut blend is soft so I added c-3 as I seemed to get more consistency with the texture although I find that most of the time I need to do a second pour. Heat gun makes it worse. Manufactures suggest heating to 200 but I found that it was contributing to messy tops, craters. After testing for a verrryyyy long time I have found through much trial and error that heating to 175 , adding fo right away mixing for about 3 min. and then pouring gives me a decent pour 95% of the time. I find I need to do a second pour to level out tops and finish them off. But the tops are almost always dull :(

I am using three sizes of straight sided jars, 4,8 and 16 oz. sizes.

I have read that c-3 can be a pain in the you know what, but I like it better than 464.

I haven't tested other soy waxes, so I'm unfamiliar with their appearance.

Any input would help thanks.

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The reason why I ask about tempering is that I noticed that when I leave the extra wax in my pot for the second pour it always has a very smooth surface after cooling but my candles do not:( ( I do the second pour after candle has set completely)

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Hi Gclarke,

 

Like Jack asked, what is the purpose of adding coconut oil?  C3 is a soft wax to begin with...I would think that by adding the coconut, it would be softer.....(don't really know about that as I have never tried adding it).

 

When I do my c3 I heat to about 180, give or take and immediately add my oil and uv (if you use that).  Now I pour about from anywhere from  153 to 159.

Most of the time I do generally do a second pour, depending on the temperature in my house if it is cold I will do it...if not and it is hot or muggy I don't have to.  

 

When I do the 2'nd pour if wait till the next day to do it when I'm pouring lots of candles I'll do that 2'nd repour (I call a top off) I'll do it about 160 give or take.  If I do it the same day, I will wait till when I pickup the jar and just can barely barely feel any warmth from the jar and do it about 145 give or take.    I do this even with 464 that I use too....It's trial and error all the time...You just have to play with it.  I never had any luck with heat gunning or a hair dryer.

 

I always do get nice shiny tops....but you know, sometimes they aren't that shiny but they are a nice smooth glassy type top and that is perfectly fine with me too.  And believe me, no one is going to mind about the tops like that what so ever!

 

Trappeur 

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Thanks for the input everyone.I'm not adding coconut oil /wax. I am using coconut wax as my main ingredient. . You can find it only at a few suppliers (coconut wax) it's a choice that I'm sticking with. So, why am I using it, because I want to;) the c-3 added was only because I felt I got more consistent smooth tops with that added. I wouldn't add c-3 if I can get smooth tops with the coconut wax. Maybe I should just add some USA and forget the c-3..... Anyway

my main question was how people temper their wax, for the ones that do it. Why can't I find this. It seems there are a lot of posts about it but not how it's done .

All I need is a generalization, I will test anyway. For example : Heat wax then let sit for ? How long , til it completely sets? then reheat to around what? And pour...

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I agree with ChrisR. I just started using soy wax, and I've been testing thoroughly different techniques in using it. Tempering was one of them. Which it does "seem" to give a smoother appearance - for a while. I have noticed that after leaving a candle sit for 4-6 weeks, the not so smooth top returns, as it also will after the first burn, so it's just IMO an added wasted step that in the end makes no difference.

I would rather my customers know what they are getting rather than see a nice smooth candle, only to get home and have it change appearance drastically. 

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Guest OldGlory

Interesting perspective, JCandle, I never thought about the customer's perception of the change in the appearance of the surface.

In 15 years of making soy wax candles, not one customer has commented on 1) the appearance of the surface before the burn, or 2) the appearance of the surface after the burn. Maybe it only matters to me to have a nice surface! I think my customers return because of the performance rather than the appearance.

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. Maybe it only matters to me to have a nice surface! I think my customers return because of the performance rather than the appearance.

Ding ding ding! When they burn as they should, throw well and last an expected amount of time people return over and over and stop questioning the price.

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Being that we're talking about tempering....has anyone ever thought of this;.......................so now you have tempered wax and getting ready to heat up again to pour into jars.....ok.....now......I would think that you would be losing somewhat a little scent throw now that the wax is being reheated.....Am I wrong or what?  What exactly does tempering actually or supposedly supposed to do anyway?  I don't quite understand the justification of even doing that myself....To me it is a lot of wasted time and I don't want to lose any scent when I work so hard to perfect a strong scent.....?????

 

Trappeur

Edited by Trappeur
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So, I researched tempering chocolate and found that the reason for doing so was so that the chocolate has "snap" and a smooth shiny appearance. (Has to do with crystallization etc. ...) I know when I buy a Hershey's bar it looks pretty with the Hershey's name imprinted nicely on the bar and it is smooth and shiny. But a few times I left it in my bag or the car on a hot day and it turned mushy, so I put it in the fridge, and when I went to eat it, it tasted exactly the same

Maybe there is not a need , it is an extra step and who wants that. But I would love shiny smooth tops consistently :) in a perfect world.

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Guest OldGlory

Here's my observation:

As soy wax cools you can see really tiny "crystals" forming. I mean smaller than the head of a pin. If you pour that wax, you get a rough surface. Doesn't effect anything but asthetics. However, if you pour all but 1/8", let that cool, and set aside a small portion of the same wax - then slowly reheat the leftover wax (so you don't burn it off) until the wax is a smooth, creamy consistency, then top off your cooled candles with that, you get a smooth top.

First impressions count, whether we want them to or not. If you put 2 candles side by side, one has a smooth surface, one has a rough surface, which one do you think will sell first?

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So what you are saying Old Glory is that tempering is really the repour of just the top?  Well that makes sense as I do that all the time. Heating up that very small amount to repour over the top you really don't lose much of any scent if heated slowly since it is going over the entire candle.....  I thought tempering was pouring all your wax into the pour pot, adding your oil and whatever else you do and then let that all sit till it hardens and then you reheat the entire pour pot again to get it ready to pour into your jars.....so that is why I made the comment that reheating the entire pour pot again was just too much work for me......I understand now....

 

Trappeur

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Part of crystal formation is the rate of cooling. Slow cool, big crystals. Quick cool, much smaller crystals.

When i cool my soy candles rapidly they are usually nice and shiny, morror smooth. When cooling my soy candles sloooowly, frost and unshiny tops. Same happens when making products for bath & Body, food, etc.

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Being that we're talking about tempering....has anyone ever thought of this;.......................so now you have tempered wax and getting ready to heat up again to pour into jars.....ok.....now......I would think that you would be losing somewhat a little scent throw now that the wax is being reheated.....Am I wrong or what?  

 

Trappeur

Trappeur, best not to add fo or dye until after tempering and you're reheating the second time. For me in C3, tempering greatly reduces the 'bubbles' C3 is known for and gives wax a smoother texture...doesn't do much else. I agree that a repour is the best way to get smooth tops every time :)

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Guest OldGlory

So what you are saying Old Glory is that tempering is really the repour of just the top?  Well that makes sense as I do that all the time. Heating up that very small amount to repour over the top you really don't lose much of any scent if heated slowly since it is going over the entire candle.....  I thought tempering was pouring all your wax into the pour pot, adding your oil and whatever else you do and then let that all sit till it hardens and then you reheat the entire pour pot again to get it ready to pour into your jars.....so that is why I made the comment that reheating the entire pour pot again was just too much work for me......I understand now....

 

Trappeur

Let me be clear - I don't know for sure what "tempering" wax really is. Someone explained it to me as cooling and reheating your wax slowly. Others along the way have disagreed. What it's called is of less importance to me than the result I am aiming for, which is a smooth top. That's just my procedure how ever you name it.

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There used to be a candle maker on this forum that used soy and she really believed in tempering her wax.  Seems like there was some controversy - to put it mildly - over this.  I think it was just a process of heating and reheating the wax several time with no oil or dye in it.  Reference was made to chocolate.  Haven't seen her around in a long time and can't remember her name.

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Part of crystal formation is the rate of cooling. Slow cool, big crystals. Quick cool, much smaller crystals.

When i cool my soy candles rapidly they are usually nice and shiny, morror smooth. When cooling my soy candles sloooowly, frost and unshiny tops. Same happens when making products for bath & Body, food, etc.

TallTayl, so you cool rapidly? What works for you? I might try this. I think my tops are definitely affected by the rate of cooling, now that I see all of this wonderful info. I live in So. Cal so the temperature is mild, consistent. My room is usually around 72ish. I also can't stand the bubbles in C-3

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My soap and candle shop is normally chilly year-round. When the big melters and summer dehumidifiers are on it can heat up a bit, so i run at least one good size fan to rapidly circulate the air. I have to stay mindful of air pockets in the rapidly cooled candles, especially when cooling around fan moved air.

Bath and beauty products, like solid shampoo and conditioner, get fast chilled in a freezer. The rapid cool creates a quick shrink, shiny surfaces and easy release from molds.

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There is more than one kind of tempering, so to begin with the conversation is useless unless we are all talking about the same thing.

 

The tempering of chocolate is not relevant to this discussion. You can't do that with soy wax.

 

The tempering described advocated in the past by forum user Stella52 that she did with C3 is useless and does nothing. It is a huge misunderstanding -- maybe of a chocolate technique -- to the point that it seems completely made up. You can melt your soy wax as many times as you like and it won't be tempered. Melting it until clear hits the reset button.

 

You can increase the effectiveness of the slushy-pour by cooling the wax more quickly while applying a shear force with an immersion blender (being careful not to suck air from the surface). Putting the pour pot in a bowl of water while running the blender will speed the cooling, but take it out at the first hint of haze. Things will go very quickly once the wax starts to go opaque. You probably can't pour lower than 115 F using this technique with GW415.

 

Once cool, keep the candles at a steady 85 F for 48 hours. This is mainly the part that the food industry refers to as tempering. It helps make the crystal structure of a solid fat (like soy wax) more stable so that subsequent temperature changes don't affect it. If possible, store the candles where they won't be subjected to a lot of temp fluctuations.

 

Because of the nature of soy wax and limitations in how well we can control variables with this kind of product, there is no way to completely stabilize how your candles come out. Sooner or later they will change in appearance and maybe performance (for instance, they develop frost and the melt point of the wax can increase so they burn differently).

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  • 1 month later...

Hi everyone. I have read through all the replies about tempering wax, or repouring, or whatever people call the process. I am a novice candle maker as the name suggests. I have been using soy wax GW464 and have found these cool ceramic bowls (approx 11cm diameter) to pour into. On three attempts, the result is this 'pitting' appearance despite pouring at the recommended temperature of 55-60 degrees Celsius. As I've been researching, I keep a little wax left over, which I reheat to fill in the holes. The final result is air bubbles rising to the top and the wax appears cracked in places?? Do you have any advice?

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