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Are Bergamot and Pink Grapefruit faders?

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I have a bergamot, rosemary, and pink grapefruit blend that has faded and wondered if those 2 oils are faders? I can smell the rosemary but the rest is faded. What can I do to anchor them and help the scent last longer?

 

Was thinking of  upping the bergamot and grapefruit and anchoring them with either litsea or patch or both. What do you think?

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They are notorious faders, even if you can get them folded. Best rec, get a really good FO. Most FO of those also fade, usually quickly.

 

ETA - WRT "anchoring" with litsea, etc. All I have ever smelled when "anchoring" is the litsea itself. Unless the other volatile essences are for label appeal, I don't waste the $.

Edited by TallTayl
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I don't understand anchoring. I might believe in it if anyone could explain how anchoring a scent could happen. Everyone talks like it's real but to my ears it sounds a bit like adding unicorns.

My bergamot smells really nice. That is, when I put it right up to my nose and breathe deep. Yum. But nothing that faint in the bottle has ever smelled like much when I've put it in soap.

Seriously, there are EOs that based on OOB impression I realize I might as well toss, but it's hard to do.

Of the real citruses, how well does lime work? I haven't truly put it to the test. OOB it doesn't bowl me over but it's not a total dud either, and the fragrance is very nice.

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Depending on how much lime you use, it can become overpowering. I never had to "anchor" it, which is to say to help give it some staying power. 

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Lime seems to be the exception to the citrus fade rules.

Everyone has a tried-and-true method for "anchoring". I have never found any of them to work. The most popular is litsea. All i ever smell when i add litsea, in any amount, is litsea.

I really need to get that "anchoring" mythbusting experiment done. This could be the kick in the pants to just do it. I plan to do the experiment using Orange EO, since it is readily available and reasonably priced. If any of the tricks used in experiments work with orange, they "should" in theory work on any citrus i would think.

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I would think too, but perhaps grapefruit would be a better test? I kind of think grapefruit is more flighty than orange, but maybe that's because I used an old bar of soap recently that was orange and patch and was to be made with EOs. Perhaps it really wasn't. 

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I don't understand anchoring. I might believe in it if anyone could explain how anchoring a scent could happen. Everyone talks like it's real but to my ears it sounds a bit like adding unicorns.

My bergamot smells really nice. That is, when I put it right up to my nose and breathe deep. Yum. But nothing that faint in the bottle has ever smelled like much when I've put it in soap.

Seriously, there are EOs that based on OOB impression I realize I might as well toss, but it's hard to do.

Of the real citruses, how well does lime work? I haven't truly put it to the test. OOB it doesn't bowl me over but it's not a total dud either, and the fragrance is very nice.

Don't toss EO even if you can't use it for soaping, use it for your own personal use.  You can put it on your skin with FCO or any carrier oil or diffuse it into the air.  I have a cheap air diffuser that takes no water so can run all day.

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I would think too, but perhaps grapefruit would be a better test? I kind of think grapefruit is more flighty than orange, but maybe that's because I used an old bar of soap recently that was orange and patch and was to be made with EOs. Perhaps it really wasn't.

The reason for orange is also because i have 5x, 10x, and decolorized. I have some 5x grapefruit, but since it's so spendy and near to impossible to replace I am resistant, lol. I'll be doing 1 lb of each test so i can put sample collections together, and will need quite a bit of EO.

Maybe round 2 could be straight up single distill grapefruit?

Once lemon comes back out of the stratosphere I may look at that one too.

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Don't toss EO even if you can't use it for soaping, use it for your own personal use.  You can put it on your skin with FCO or any carrier oil or diffuse it into the air.  I have a cheap air diffuser that takes no water so can run all day.

 

Good point, I should get me a diffuser.

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Well I did get 10x to stick in CP. Although it was blended with clove, litsea, cinnamon, and some honey FO. Its my orange spice soap and you can smell the orange albeit its light but its definitely there.

 

On the other hand every time I have used orange 5x there was no orange scent after about 2-3 weeks or extremely light. In any event, it was gone by 4 weeks of soap curing.

 

Has anyone tried CPHP with orange? Or does it fade in that that too?

Edited by Candybee

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Lime seems to be the exception to the citrus fade rules.

Everyone has a tried-and-true method for "anchoring". I have never found any of them to work. The most popular is litsea. All i ever smell when i add litsea, in any amount, is litsea.

I really need to get that "anchoring" mythbusting experiment done. This could be the kick in the pants to just do it. I plan to do the experiment using Orange EO, since it is readily available and reasonably priced. If any of the tricks used in experiments work with orange, they "should" in theory work on any citrus i would think.

 

Anchoring is somewhat of a myth but it's roots lie in how our noses perceive aromas. If we pair "Scent A" with a supporting scent SIMILAR in aroma profile, say "Scent B" than the perceived "strength" of the aroma and it's "longevity" will be greater! It would smell like a stronger linear-onenote version of Scent A, and less like the sum of its' parts (Scent A + B ). Of course, all of this relies on the scents being similar-smelling. And, It's far less effective when scents differ. However... the belief that by adding an additional scent to the main scent will somehow make the main scent last longer is purely myth! A fixative is needed in those instances. A citron that fades rapidly can be greatly improved with a fixative. 

Edited by rctfavr3
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However... the belief that by adding an additional scent to the main scent will somehow make the main scent last longer is purely myth! A fixative is needed in those instances. A citron that fades rapidly can be greatly improved with a fixative. 

 

Does benzoin EO have any fixative properties?

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Glucam P-20; used in a ratio of 3-5 drops per oz will greatly improve the longevity of citric EOs and other high-volatile top note aromas. Glucam P-20 was developed out of the need for longer lasting topnotes in perfumery. But, It's also candle and soap safe. Save on Scents has their own proprietary fixative as well that is most useful with musks, woods, and floral aromas although it should work on citrons too. Haven't tried it in soap.

 

Have you tried using castor oil?

Edited by rctfavr3

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And CP is a different animal. Plus, benzoin is a sensitizer with IFRA restrictions to worry about.

 

I spent some time trying to understand IFRA on that matter before buying it. It was confusing. From what I recall the concern seemed to be with the raw resin rather than the liquid essence.

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Glucam P-20; used in a ratio of 3-5 drops per oz will greatly improve the longevity of citric EOs and other high-volatile top note aromas. Glucam P-20 was developed out of the need for longer lasting topnotes in perfumery. But, It's also candle and soap safe. Save on Scents has their own proprietary fixative as well that is most useful with musks, woods, and floral aromas although it should work on citrons too. Haven't tried it in soap.

 

Have you tried using castor oil?

I've used castor in CP soap formulations, which of course produces ricinoleate soap. The ricinoleate seems to make other soaps in the product more soluble, but I don't know how it interacts with fragrance.

 

I read the patent on polyols as fragrance fixatives and found it interesting that it tested well in such a variety of products. I would think, however, that the references to bar soap mean milled soap. In CP, the P-20 would have to survive the manufacture of the soap itself. I think it might be reactive.

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All the citrus oils I've tried in CP are faders, with the exception of 10x sweet orange and 5x lime.  I can smell those in my soaps.  Citrus oils in general are very volatile.  It seems the moment they hit air, POOF!  Gone.

 

I've always thought anchoring was kind of iffy myself.  

 

For a lemony scent in CP, I go with litsea cubeba or lemongrass.  Those babies stick like glue.

 

I just got an e.o. diffuser this past fall and love that pup.  It gets heavy use around here.  And works great for citrus eo's as well.  Random: A great blend for opening clogged sinuses is eucalyptus, rosemary, and peppermint.  BAM!  The camphor and menthol will ream your nostrils right open in no time flat.   :lol:   And I like a little peppermint blended with Bulgarian lavender for headaches.  Oh, and nothing so cheery as a nice blend of lemon, orange, and other citrus oils.  

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Well back to my original query-- I am guessing that I will probably just have to come up with another EO blend. The soap isn't selling much anyway because of the scent fading.

 

I do have a pink grapefruit salt bar I mix pink grapefruit EO with Sea Island Grapefruit FO that lasts in CP and smells awesome. Maybe I will use the FO with the pink grapefruit and mix those with some other florals...

 

So what else would pair nicely with grapefruit and rosemary?

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On 5/19/2015 at 12:54 PM, Crafty1_AJ said:

All the citrus oils I've tried in CP are faders, with the exception of 10x sweet orange and 5x lime.  I can smell those in my soaps.  Citrus oils in general are very volatile.  It seems the moment they hit air, POOF!  Gone.

 

I've always thought anchoring was kind of iffy myself.  

 

For a lemony scent in CP, I go with litsea cubeba or lemongrass.  Those babies stick like glue.

 

I just got an e.o. diffuser this past fall and love that pup.  It gets heavy use around here.  And works great for citrus eo's as well.  Random: A great blend for opening clogged sinuses is eucalyptus, rosemary, and peppermint.  BAM!  The camphor and menthol will ream your nostrils right open in no time flat.   :lol:   And I like a little peppermint blended with Bulgarian lavender for headaches.  Oh, and nothing so cheery as a nice blend of lemon, orange, and other citrus oils.  

Where do you get 5x Lime EO ... Ive only seen lemon + orange but never lime.

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On 9/23/2017 at 2:24 PM, Moonstar said:

Where do you get 5x Lime EO ... Ive only seen lemon + orange but never lime.

 

SMR used to have THE BEST one, but they've since went out of business. 

 

Candybee suggested Camden-Grey, for a replacement, however, on looking at their site, you can only get 1 (ONE) bottle of any size of it at any given time, and they want almost $19 for a 4oz bottle. So... 

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