Soap experiment

[Gsmakinsoap]

Hello Everybody!!

 

My name is Georgialee and I'm new here (this is my second post). I've so enjoyed lurking here and gleaning info on soapmaking, chandling (chandlering?), etc. It's especially fun reading about the various FO's! Been getting stocked up and ready to dive in. Of course, I now have way more FO's than I need! Thank you all so much for your helpful and interesting postings and enable-lings!

 

Yesterday I made soap for the first time. Yay! It was a success. Like everyone else I'm sure, I want to make the perfect bar of soap. So, to get there as quickly as possible, I did an experiment.  I used 8 ounces of oils/butter (56% coconut, 16% olive, 13% Shea, 10% soy, 5% Castor). I had planned to use PKO, but forgot that it was solid in a jug type container, so I just upped the Coconut, Olive, and Shea. Oh, I also superfatted at 10%. And added about 1.5% Sodium lactate (to the lye water). After mixing for too long,  I also added .5 oz of Aqua Spa FO (WSP).  Then, I split the mix into 5 separate portions, into which I added:

 

1) Nothing (Control)

2).Some mashed avocado (a small portion that calculates out to 50g per pound oils)

3) Some corn starch (calculates to a bit more than a teaspoon per pound oils)

4) Some silk peptide powder (same amount as corn starch)

5) Mashed avocado, corn starch, AND silk powder (same amounts as above)

 

I let it get a little thicker than I should have before pouring (scooping), but it wasn't too difficult or unmanageable. I used one of those blue silicone molds with individual rectangular cavities. So, now I have 5 different small bars of soap that I'm very impatiently waiting for to cure. I don't think I can wait 4 weeks before making more soap! So, I'm thinking of just making some more with the #5 recipe! This time with some color swirls!

 

An interesting thing I've noted is that the Control (#1) has developed a fair bit of ash, followed (not closely) by the silk and corn starch, whereas the ones with avocado in them have none at all. However, I do wonder if it's due to the production method, rather than strictly the ingredients...I got to the control last, and it had gotten thicker sitting there in it's container waiting for me, and then, since I didn't have anything to mix into it, I just whisked it up a little bit before scooping it into the mold. The other ones got a lot more whisking to mix in their various additives, and I did the avocado ones first. More testing needed, I guess. 

 

Sometime I'll try avocado oil and see if that is comparable to adding mashed avocado. It would be good to have something that doesn't discolor the soap. Although, I can always play around with some TD, right?

 

Do any of you have any other ingredients you'd recommend to make it creamy, silky, and luxurious? I bet I've forgotten something...

Oh, by the way, NDA has a great price on Shea--and it's not even a sale!

 

Hope I haven't rambled too much. Thanks again to you all for making this adventure even more enjoyable.

 

Georgialee (in Washington state)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jcandleattic]

Hi Georialee and welcome! 

 

Ash can be caused by a great many things and it varies. Type of water, type of humidity, amount of water used, ingredients used, etc. The ones that have ash on it could be because even though they are right next to each other, are getting more moisture out of the air, which could mean the additives in the others are helping to prevent it. 

I rarely get ash, and the few times I have, I have no idea why because all varients have been the same. Same recipe, same FO, same same same, and yet they developed ash as the other soap I had made before had not. So? Ash is one of the biggest soaping mysteries there is. 

 

Most people find that when using Coconut oil - unless using 100% with a very high SF - anything over 15%-20% is too drying, so you may want to test your soaps after the 4 - 6 week cure before making a 5lb batch. 

However, that's a personal preference. My main recipe has 30% CO and most soapers who have used my bars say they are very conditioning, but I have other conditioning oils as well. 

 

The allusive "best recipe" is always a conundrum because what is great for one person, may be too drying for the next, what is very conditioning may be too greasy, etc., etc., 

If you haven't seen this, it's a very good read about "the best recipe" 

 

http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

 

Welcome to the board and to the addiction. 

Fun, isn't it?

[8-GRAN-ONES]

Try spritzing rubbing alcohol on top of your soap right before covering..and try not to peek until it has set for awhile. .

I gel my soaps..so it is several hours before I unwrap..i don't normally get ash..but when I do..i just embrace it..lol..

I think some fo's are just prone to ash..

[Candybee]

Congrats on your first soap!

 

I find I get ash if I unveil my soap before it is finished saponifying. The air oxidizes with some of the ingredients and forms a light layer of ash on the surface of the soap. Its harmless and can be cut away but I don't care for it or the way it looks.

 

I only use a high amount of coconut oil for salt bars and detergent soaps. For my regular soaps I don't go over 25% as I find coconut oil can be very drying on my skin. For a salt bar its different as I use a high superfat and long cure time so the soap will be more mild.

[Gsmakinsoap]

Thanks you all for the info on ash. I'll keep the soap covered next time! (and hope for the best)

 

@ jcandleattic, I went to the link and read it. I guess it makes sense, but I hadn't thought before that what one person likes in a soap another wouldn't.  

About the amount of coconut oil in my recipe...I had heard about making 100% coconut oil soap and superfatting at 20%. So, in my mind it made sense to use half the amount of coconut oil (around 50%) and superfat at half as well (10%). And thus achieve a bar that is somewhat high in the coconut oil but not drying. But I guess there's a flaw in that reasoning somewhere?

 

Now how about this scenario: make a highly drying coconut oil soap for myself so I am then forced to make some nicely scented lotion to rehydrate, so I can use up some more of my FO's? It's a win-win! I never usually need lotion, so the soap would help with that, right? :-)

[Candybee]

The only way to tell what works for you is to experiment. Its unusual for a beginner to tackle a high coconut oil soap for their first soap. If that is what you want then keep working on it until you get the right mildness for your skin type.

 

It makes more sense to strive to create a soap that moisturizes your skin and leaves it feeling comfortable and healthy without the need for lotion. Lotion should be optional. So I would not approach a recipe thinking in terms of making a drying coconut oil soap. Try to strive for a moisturizing and conditioning bar. HTH

[Jcandleattic]

Exactly as Candybee said. It's all about experimentation. I only know of a handful of people that use the same recipe that they started with. 

Even now, 12 years later, I am still tweaking and changing my recipe up every now and then. I do have my main recipe that I use, but even that one got an overhaul about a year ago. 

As to what works for one and not for others, here's an example: I know a lot of people that love lard in their recipe, however for me, it breaks me out and leaves me feeling greasy and like I haven't rinsed well, so I avoid it. Also take into consideration in a year or so when/if you want to sell, some people are allergic to certain oils, or are vegan, or any number of things, so you will want to know your target market and go from there as well. 

 

The next question would be, why coconut oil? Personally I love it, and use it at a high % because my skin type will allow that, but I counter that with other conditioning oils that cancel out the drying effect, but if it is drying to your skin, there are other ways to get a cleansing bar with high bubbles not using a high % of coconut which will bring the mildness up as well.  

 

I also agree that lotion or skin softening agents after the fact, should be optional, not necessary. I live in a very dry, high desert climate with very little humidity (seriously, I fee like I'm going to drown when it's at or above 20%) and I very rarely feel I "need" lotion or body butter. 

I use it - because I love it, not because my skin needs it. 

 

Hope this helped answer some of your questions. 

Oh and what lye calculator do you use? A very helpful one when creating new recipes is Soap Calc

 

Here are some links to help get you started if you haven't read them. The first two are informational, and the last one is the actual lye calculator. 

 

http://soapcalc.net/info/GettingStarted.asp

 

http://soapcalc.net/info/SoapQualities.asp

 

http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcWP.asp

[Gsmakinsoap]

I was just kidding about making a drying soap. I guess my humor is too dry! :-)  As for getting the right blend of oils, I know I'm going to have to test it out with others, because I don't notice any difference for myself no matter what the soap I use! However, I don't think I've ever used a non-commercially produced soap before, so chances are anything I make will be better than what I've used in the past (at least, everyone says homemade soap is way better). But I will be striving for a great all-around bar that passes muster with my friends too. I appreciate all the help.

 

I did use Soapcalc as my lye calculator, but I didn't read the links, so thanks!

 

That is really interesting how lard in soap affects you, jcandleattic.  I'd never heard that before. Good to know. 

[Candybee]

I love lard in soap! Tallow too! There is nothing creamier than a good lard or tallow soap! I have a basic facial bar that has 25% lard in it. I sell the dickens out of it and customers tell me it clears their complexion and is the only soap they can use because it doesn't itch sensitive skin. Lard is actually very close to the natural oils in our skin and is non-comedegenic.

 

JC you must have an allergy to lard. But thankfully their are some pretty good subs for it. I like a combo of palm oil and shea to sub for lard or tallow.

 

The majority of my soaps are vegan but I also have quite a few with either lard, tallow, and even lanolin in them. Depends on the soap. I make a lot of specialty soaps so I have a wide range of butters, oils, and fats I use for particular specialty bars.

[Jcandleattic]

I love lard in soap! Tallow too! There is nothing creamier than a good lard or tallow soap! I have a basic facial bar that has 25% lard in it. I sell the dickens out of it and customers tell me it clears their complexion and is the only soap they can use because it doesn't itch sensitive skin. Lard is actually very close to the natural oils in our skin and is non-comedegenic.

 

JC you must have an allergy to lard. But thankfully their are some pretty good subs for it. I like a combo of palm oil and shea to sub for lard or tallow.

 

 

Could be. But I do have very oily skin, so maybe since it's so close in make-up, that's why I break out? Getting TOO much natural oils? IDK... I just know if I use a lard soap for more than 3-4 days in a row, I will start to get acne all over my face, neck and chest. Nowhere else - just there. I've never been one to use a separate soap for face and another for body. I don't have time for all that. LOL 

I know a lot of people use lard in their soaps, and I do love the feel of lard in soaps, and am not opposed to using it for any 'ethical' reasons such as vegan or the like, I just can't use it.  

[Candybee]

I get that with cocoa butter. As soon as I use a cocoa butter soap I get blemishes on my skin. But if I continue to use it my skin becomes acclimated to it. Sooooo... in my case that tells me I am not allergic to it but have to use on a regular basis then I am okay.

 

But there are people who definitely have allergic reactions to animal fats in soap.

 

Have you tried tallow in soap? Its a great sub for lard.

[chuck_35550]

The main drawback to a high coconut formula is cost. The holy trinity of soapmaking is coconut, olive and palm. I don't care for lard but love tallow in my soaps. I don't like botanical or plant additives because you're left with a mess in the tub, on your skin and you need a preservative to keep out the dreaded orange spots. I really hate the way fresh plant ingredients discolor in soap as well. Now that's just my personal preferences and nothing more. I have two types of soap in my shower. One is for when my skin feels dry and the other for when my skin feels oily. I use 100% pasteurized goat milk for my liquid in all my soaps and love micas for coloration. I heartily recommend Quiet Girl's recipe, as most of the ingredients are in the grocery store and it makes a great balanced bar of soap IMHO. I have a good tallow formula, salt bar formula, shampoo bar formula and a problem skin formula. The pko I have is flaked not solid. I test my soaps about a week after production (yes I know they should cure for thousands of years) to get a general idea of the fragrance, slip (feel), bubbles and skin response. You can always go back and try another bar after more time kwim? HTH

Steve

[Candybee]

Thats a good point about the cost of the coconut oil. Its not an expensive oil per se but if you use a lot of it in all your soapmaking it can get be.

 

For a basic soap I started out with AJ's olive oil 45%, coconut oil 25%, lard 25%, and castor 5% with goat milk for liquid. It makes an awesome bar and all ingredients can be found at the grocery store or Wally's. If you don't like the lard then use Wally's shortening with the palm oil. All the ingredients are local and shopping local while you are learning about soapmaking can save you a lot of money.

[Gsmakinsoap]

 (yes I know they should cure for thousands of years)

It sure seems that way! LOL!!

 

I am surprised to hear you say that Coconut oil is costly. It seemed like one of the cheaper ones to me. I can't buy it locally for any sort of a good price, but ordering from Soaper's Choice and paying for shipping too still places it a bit lower than olive oil locally from Costco (the cheapest), and a fair bit cheaper than the Palm and PKO also from Soaper's Choice. The only ones cheaper than the coconut (of the hard oils) is the lard and tallow. Do either of you have a better (cheaper) source for your Palm and PKO perchance? If so, I'm all ears!! (Thanks for the tip about the Palm shortening, Candybee. I'll have to look into that).

 

I'm a little hesitant about using tallow and lard, as I'm not too sure how healthy those fats are. It seems I've heard that a lot of the toxins end up in the fat, so unless it's NOT a feedlot cow or pig, chances are it's got a fair bit of yucky stuff in there that I'd rather not be slathering on my body. But I could be wrong about that...

[Candybee]

I wasn't saying it was a costly oil. Its definitely one of the cheaper ones compared to others. What I was referring to was using any one oil (like coconut oil) in a high amount for all your soapmaking.

 

For example if you are using CO at 75-90-100% you go through it pretty fast and the cost can multiply much faster than if you are using it at say 35-30% for most of your soap and or for a specialty soap. KWIM?

[Gsmakinsoap]

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks!