Just Saying Hello. And A Quick Question Please...

[Mike]

I just joined yesterday and wanted to say hello. Hello!

 

I'm retired a few years and was looking for something new to try. So I bought some soy wax and supplies and made a few candles and it's kind of fun. But I'm really at the hobby phase right now giving the candles I made to friends, but pretty good feedback so far. I'm not too sure I'll ever be able to make them to sell, but I am interested in learning new things so this is my hobby right now. I have learned a few things already reading through some of the posts on the forums here.

 

So I do have one questions. I will do some experimenting with fragrances and wicks and stuff, I'm not really worried about putting some time and money into it and coming up with my own thing. But I was concerned by one comment in particular that I couldn't get out of my head so I have to ask about it. As I said, I'm giving away the candles that I've made to some friends, and my number one concern is not getting anyone hurt. I saw yesterday a post about testing and coming up with a "safe" candle. What exactly is meant by a safe candle? I wish I could remember where I saw the comment, because it may sound out of context here. But is there anything I should look out for safety-wise aside from the obvious don't burn anyone's house down?

 

Thanks to all.

 

Mike

Edited December 16, 2014 by Mike

[Guest OldGlory]

Hi Mike, welcome aboard. 

 

A safe candle really is just about not burning the house down, part of which is making a good candle. You can't do much about someone who is negligent and leaves a candle burning within inches of their drapes with an open window, blah blah blah. The best thing you can do is price some insurance policies, and there are numerous threads about that.

 

So, you want something that won't burn the house down, doesn't throw soot, smells great, and looks nice too. That's pretty much it.

 

And please understand from the start that a clean burn is the relationship between the wick, wax, fragrance, and container. According to the EPA, there is no measuable safety difference in the particulate emissions of paraffin, soy, palm, and beeswax when the wicking is done properly. There's a lot of hype about soy burning cleaner, but testing does not bear that out.

 

We encourage your participation here and will answer your questions to the best of our abilities. When you have questions, please include the type of wax you are using, the fragrance and who it's from, the wick type and size you are using, and if you can provide a picture, all the better. While we don't have ALL the answers, it is likely that someone here has been thru the same experience and can offer some insight.

[Mike]

Thank you OG. Would you recommend insurance if I'm not selling them but giving them to friends? I would obviously look at getting insurance if I ever get that far and decide to try and start selling.

 

I started out with 10lbs of Golden Brands 464 Soy wax with ECO 14 wicks in 8 oz candle tins from Candle Science and I just bought another 50 lbs of wax, 120 more tins and 6 - 8 ounce bottle of fragrance from Candlewic (the shipping seemed better).

 

I'm really just starting out like I've only made 9 candles total, gave away 4 and burned 3 myself. I was just heating the wax with direct heat from an electric hot plate (CandleScience should change their video). I just recently realized I needed to make a doube boiler type set up so I bought a 6 quart sauce pan, I'm putting a round cookie cutter in the bottom and putting my pouring pitcher on that with about 2 inches of water above the bottom of the pouring pitcher. I haven't tried that out yet but I'm going to as soon as I can.

 

Also I didn't know about the curing time so my next batch is going to sit about 2 weeks before I burn them or give them away. That kind of stinks because another friend and his wife mentioned they like bayberry so I ordered some of that fragrance and was going to give them a couple of bayberry candles for Christmas.

 

One of the problems I have to overcome is the wax not melting to the edges of the containers. The ones I burned seemed fine but one friend tells me he's getting a hole in the wax where the wick is burning down the center. I think I read somewhere you should let the wax burn to the outside of the container or you can expect that to happen but I'm not sure. Also after they burn a while it looks sort of like cottage cheese. So I'm wondering if that's normal.

 

Funny story, my wife said the beach lined candle I was burning smelled weak. Well not all fragrances are created equal but I didn't know that and made some cranberry marmalade's with and ounce and a half of fragrance to a pound of wax. It was a little stronger than I cared for. But that's what testing is about.

[Guest OldGlory]

I think you hit on the big issues we all struggle to overcome when we first start making candles! Good job cutting to the chase Mike.

 

No, I do not recommend getting insurance until you are selling. In my opinion that is an unnecessary expense for you right now. Well, unless the people you are giving candle to have a litigious bone...

 

I have been using soy wax, and 464 in particular for as long as it's been on the market. I really like it in 8 oz tins, but not so much in glass jars because it will frost (start showing white areas) in candles with dye. I like the look of it undyed but my clients do not. I find the fragrance throw in 464 superior to most other waxes with a 6% fragrance load, which is about an oz of fragrance oil (FO) per pound of wax. And most of us weigh everything as opposed to measuring by displacement (like 8 fluid oz). If you do decide to sell, your candles will have to be labeled with the net weight, so it's a good practice to start with.

 

I melt in a presto pot which I find easily at Walmart. It's pretty easy to set the temperature but you will also want a nice, reliable thermometer. As you fine tune your process, you will heat your wax to a certain temp., add FO as a certain temp, and pour at a certain temp. It's pretty important!

 

The cure - yes, it's something you don't think about but it counts in a very big way. Just tell the gift recipients that there is a cure time with this wax and to try and wait at least a week before they burn their candle.

 

Tunneling is what you are describing - burning down the center, but not out to the edges. Your wick is too small. The candle should get sorta close to the edge the first 2 times you burn it, and as you burn deeper it should burn all the way across. The candle will heat up (all container candles) as it burns deeper. This is a bit of a safety issue. You don't want it so hot as it burns down that the person will pick it up, burn themselves and DROP it. Wicks are tricky. You will spend a lot of time and money testing. And yes, the cottage cheese effect is typical with soy.

 

And finally, you are spot on about fragrances having different intensities - and, as if that isn't enough, our own individual sense of smell is different than the next person's. And someone will like cake FO, but someone will hate cake FO. There's a lot to learn!

[moonshine]

Old glory has some great advice - my 2 cents worth is that if you don't have insurance and your giving your candles away to family and friends just make sure you have fully tested that candle yourself before doing so- your comment of giving away more than you have burned concerned me a little in that sense and maybe I misunderstood ...when you make a batch make sure you make a couple testers for yourself and test them before giving away- test one the normal way your supposed to burn a candle - an hour for every inch diameter of your container which most people do not and that is where the second tester comes into play- power burn it to the end to make sure it doesn't get to hot or something funky goes on with burn

Candlescience is a great company and 464 is a good wax

Have tons of fun - welcome and look forward to your posts!

[Mike]

Thank you so much for the great advice. It is much appreciated. I do have a lot to learn but it's a lot of fun and sometimes getting there is just as much fun as the destination.

[moonshine]

Yes it is and I can only speak for myself but I have been doing this since 2008 and still learn something new or come across a new problem weekly! And just when I think I am satisfied completely I bring in a new wax to test or think maybe this wick will be better and continue the never ending process of testing! But it is addicting and so much fun coming up with new ideas and scents.....and scents just to forewarn you will be taking over your house soon if your like a lot of us on here and can't stop buying but don't have enough time to keep testing them- they are literally taking over my basement! Lol

[Mike]

Lol, yea I hear you Moon. But right now I have a tiny space in my basement so it's hard to buy a lot of different things.

 

So I did set up a spreadsheet and I guess I have to add a few things to it.

 

I actually do keep track of fragrance by weight. I started by volume but found out really quick that it's by weight not volume. Although someone at one of the big supply companies I won't name told me different when I called to ask about the plastic measuring cups I bought (they basically melted the plastic and that's how I discovered about containers for the fragrance and about weighing them as opposed to measuring them which my wife couldn't grasp ). But the woman told me to use a teaspoon to measure the fragrance. When I told her I had read it should be weighed she didn't know what I was talking about and sort of acted like I was crazy and she maybe sounded a little annoyed like she was busy and I was bothering her. But I also could be a little over-sensitive.

 

This is what I keep track of: type of wax, type of fragrance, wax weight in pounds, fragrance weight in ounces, container used, wick used, temp wax heated to, temp fragrance added, temp wax poured, air temp during cooling, humidity during cooling and cure time. Does that sound about right in the beginning? Is there anything I should add as I get some experience.

 

Thank you.

Mike

[Guest OldGlory]

You sound like a very detail oriented person Mike. You should be able to pick up on ways to improve quickly.

 

In your testing, I would also track MP (melt pool) results. I would track types of dyes used and how much because this will effect your MP and other results.

 

I have not found humidity to be a factor, and the only thing that a cooler air temp will effect is a very slight sunken area in a soy wax candle. If that bothers you, you can invert a box over your candles while they are cooling and if it's really cold, cover the box with a blanket to insulate.

 

Have you heard of the term 'anosmia' or 'candlemaker's nose'? This is a reduced ability to smell and it really throws some people off. That's why it's important to find reliable unbiased testers and offer them some sort of standardized reporting method. If you ask someone to judge your product they need to know the criteria. For example, how big is the room? how long did you burn the candle? You may come up with some other things you want tracked. Before you give the candle to a tester how long did it cure?

 

I take a lot of the process for granted, so my suggestions are not really comprehensive. Just keep asking questions are they occur to you.

[Chefmom]

Lol, yea I hear you Moon. But right now I have a tiny space in my basement so it's hard to buy a lot of different things.

 

So I did set up a spreadsheet and I guess I have to add a few things to it.

 

I actually do keep track of fragrance by weight. I started by volume but found out really quick that it's by weight not volume. Although someone at one of the big supply companies I won't name told me different when I called to ask about the plastic measuring cups I bought (they basically melted the plastic and that's how I discovered about containers for the fragrance and about weighing them as opposed to measuring them which my wife couldn't grasp ). But the woman told me to use a teaspoon to measure the fragrance. When I told her I had read it should be weighed she didn't know what I was talking about and sort of acted like I was crazy and she maybe sounded a little annoyed like she was busy and I was bothering her. But I also could be a little over-sensitive.

 

This is what I keep track of: type of wax, type of fragrance, wax weight in pounds, fragrance weight in ounces, container used, wick used, temp wax heated to, temp fragrance added, temp wax poured, air temp during cooling, humidity during cooling and cure time. Does that sound about right in the beginning? Is there anything I should add as I get some experience.

 

Thank you.

Mike

 

Mike, your spreadsheet sounds fabulous!!  And kudos to you to start being organized so well from the very beginning.  My start in testing was quite scattered and I became very frustrated before sitting down and getting a good note taking/testing procedure going.

 

Your end goal doesn't always have to be selling, as a hobby it is very rewarding.  Long before I sold any candles I made many gift baskets for all occasions.

 

The only thing I would add to your spreadsheet would probably be scent throw, both the quality and strength of the cold throw...meaning, before lighting how well you can smell the scent just from sniffing the candle directly.  And then the hot throw, which is the quality and strength of the throw of the scent when burning.  I usually make note if the hot throw is quick or slow and exactly where it reaches in my house.  I test all my candles in the same location and make note after walking my dogs outside (to be sure my nose is clear of the scent) where exactly I pick up the scent.  Some reach as far as my back door as soon as I walk in the house (strongest throw in my opinion) and others wander through the room and into other rooms, which are acceptable throws.  If I can only detect the scent in the actual room I consider it a light throw and if I smell nothing...a dud in my wax system.

 

Keep in mind that your air convection in your room that you test your candles can change depending on what kind of heating or air cooling system you use, if windows or fans are on/open and depending on the layout of the natural convection of your house/rooms.  Open layouts with high ceilings can be difficult to detect scent because it sometimes just goes up, sometimes it can be heavy in one part of a large room and nothing in another.  So maybe make note of where you test your candles in your house and stick to testing in a few good places that are also safe to burn candles (away from cat's tails......  )

 

It's a great hobby, an art form for sure, plenty of science to learn and in the end you get something beautiful that smells wonderful !!

[Mike]

Great info. And thank you for the compliments. But I'm not naturally organized and my basement shows this. But I am trying to keep track of my testing because if I can't reproduce my results, there's no point in doing the tests.

 

I haven't noticed any sunken areas, but if I turn the candle in certain ways in the light, I can see what looks like what would be called crazing if we were talking about china on the surface of the wax. It doesn't look like it's cracks, it looks like it's on the surface and I can get rid of them if I wipe the surface with a cloth or paper towel. I thought maybe it was caused by my basement being cold like 60-62 F this time of year. Maybe the wax is cooling too fast?

[Mike]

Also, does anyone use the wick centering tool thing from CandleScience? I was going to get one but I was wondering how well it works for 8 ounce tins.

 

And should I buy the sample pack of wicks or get 100 of each size? I was going to get the sample pack but I'm thinking I'm going to need a lot of wicks for testing so I'm second guessing that.

[Guest OldGlory]

Just my opinion-

 

I have never had any luck with centering tools. I'm pretty good at putting the wick in the middle (I use wick stickers to hold them in place on the bottom of the tin - some use glue that holds up under high heat conditions). Then, I use masking tape to make sure they stay put. Cheap enough, and if you are careful you can reuse them for a while. Sometimes wicks will want to bend over after the wax has been added. I think you'll get some other opinions.

 

Re: samples or 100s of wicks, I would say get the sample packs, and get some wick tabs. In my tins I use Premier wicks which are 6" long. I get 3 wicks out of one - just cut the long wick into thirds and crimp on wick tabs to the ones without a tab. Try to get an idea of which wicks work in the 8 oz tin before you buy any. Eco 10's? CD 12's? What does Candle Science offer? I buy the big bags of wick tabs from Candle Science because they have the best price - 20 x 6 large hole - but unless you are going to pour several hundred candles a month you may want a small bag.

 

Trappeur recently found a good wick for 8 oz tins and I know she buys from Candle Science sometimes. Scour her posts over the last 4 months about 464 and wicks - probably in Vegetable Wax threads.

[Oceangazer1]

Candle science does not carry cd wicks welcome mike!!

[Mike]

Thanks OG. That's a great idea about cutting the wicks and getting 3 for one! I never thought of that and didn't want to make my own.

 

I was speaking of this tool that centers the wick for you in the bottom of the container. Not the thing you put on the rim to hold it straight for pouring and cooling. I think I'll try it out. I have sausage fingers and it's hard to see what I'm doing. I may try the bic pen idea too.

 

Hi Ocean!

[Oceangazer1]

Hi mike!! lol

[Mike]

Moonshine, I bought a couple of things the other day and without thinking about it I threw in a couple more fragrances lol. It's like potato chips I hope my lack of space stops me from going overboard.

[moonshine]

lol.....I told you- here you begin and lack of space will not mean a thing, you find places you never knew you had before to store them...haha

[Mike]

Lol!

 

I have to pick a supplier though. I bought 6 each from 2 different places so I guess I'll try them out and pick one I like best before I buy any more. Same with containers but at least there aren't that many choices.

[sidlesup]

I'm in the same dabbler boat as you, have been making candles for personal use for about a year, but as an ADD person with lots of children and pets running around, I am more of a mad scientist type tester than a precise historian.

 

With the 8 oz tins, does the ECO 14 not burn too high, and then too hot at the end? I find that I keep having to wick down from recommendations regardless of container (I also use large salsa jars from CS). There may be an FO component to that issue, although I do measure carefully and stay in the 8-10% range.

 

I'm actually testing a CS 8 oz tin with GB464 and an ECO 8 right now. 

It's definitely seeming underwicked 2 hours in, but the hot throw is absolutely delicious. It's a CS Hansel and Gretel and NG Eggnog hybrid, with a little something else I can't recall thrown in. (See: mad scientist.)

 

I've given a couple away but only after careful testing. And then I don't pour for a month or two and lose the notes, so I start all over again...

Edited December 24, 2014 by sidlesup

[Mike]

The recipe I have for 8oz tins makes 3 candles. So I'm going to try the recommended wick and one over and one under. I just got the sample pack of wicks so it'll make things easier for trying that. I also got the salsa jars so I'll be doing the same with those.

 

My problem right now is my basement is packed with antiques and collectibles from my ebay business. Trying to liquidate that and experiment with the candles is proving to be a hassle. Add to that my wife complaining she can't get to her basement pantry or freezer or refrigerator because my candle stuff and leatherworking tools (another hobby but that's a whole other story) are in her way and I'm in a bit of a fix. I think I'm going to have to put everything on hold until I can make some more room. Too bad it's not summer or I'd have a huge garage sale.

 

I think my life was easier before I retired lmao!

[Guest OldGlory]

Something that a few of us learned this year - it's best to wait to test burn for a week. Bummer, I know, but the burn will change during that time. Not talking about the hot throw (HT), but the way the wick burns the candle.

Sorry that your wife is losing her space, but as we all know, chandling takes an ever increasing amount of room. ((snickering))  Think vertical!

[Trappeur]

I can attest to what Old Glory said about waiting for the candle to cure for a week, even 2 weeks and the candle producing a more truer burn for whatever wick you choose. I learned from her that that the longer the cure ( I now do 2 weeks) instead of a week the wax and fragrance oil bond together till they are at their fullest capacity and now I can really get a more exact determination of what wick I will choose. For example I did some really detailed testings on the 8oz tins using 464 and used 2 I think htp wicks, 1 htp1212, 1 cd 12 and 1 eco 14. I started testing them just for wick size 3 days after I poured the tins. I found the eco 14 for me was waaayyy to big a wick for that tin. At the end of the test stage which ran about close to I guess about 1 1/2 weeks, that eco 14 which burned way too hot actually burned pretty good at the end of the testing of about 1 1/2 week and each day I tested that eco 14, the burn got better and better because the candle had cured. I wound up going with the cd12. For me the eco 14 was still a little too hot and the melt pool too deep, but not that bad so my decision was the cd12. I was also testing the premiers but chose the wrong size so that never was a good choice from the beginning for me.

Trappeur