flair Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 So.. Let me start by saying I am a newbie and I am really looking for help. I ordered my first supplies from candle science and gave them a try this weekend. Using golden brands 464 soy with 1 oz samples i ordered i am not getting any hot throw at ALL... I am soooooo disappointed and dejected right now!!! Used a double boiler, melted the soy, took it all at 185 and put in my FOs, stirred it for minutes and poured it a 125 degrees... the cold throw was fine but we are burning them now and there is hardly any sent.... I put 10.5 to 11oz of the soy for a 1oz bottle of FO. Can someone help I am about to pull my hair out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzpickles Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 How long did you let them cure? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 How long did you let the candle cure before test burning? Sometimes they need to sit for up to 7-14 days before getting a really good hot throw... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Made them saturday and just started burning them right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I would suggest going back thru some of the vegetable wax discussions and troubleshooting your process that way to start with. As a newbie, there are a lot of answers to questions you haven't even thought of yet.And.... this is a HARD thing to master. It may take you 6 months, it may take you a year. You will spend thousands of $ before you are ready to sell. Every fragrance oil has to be tested. So take a deep breath and join the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzpickles Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Made them saturday and just started burning them right now... Not long enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I didn't realize they had a cure time, well longer than 24 hours... So that really does make a big difference? Do you see a problem with my process too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am so sorry... In my frustration I forgot to say thanks for replying .... Sorry hope both of you forgive me.... Yes it is hard but we need another source of income as soon as possible and candles are something we have loved for a long time and we really want to make a go of this because we both have a passion for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hello Flair, Ok, so if you made them Sat morning and are burning them today that would be like 2 days cure time....give or take. They really need to sit 1 to 2 weeks to properly cure. Just like every said, it is a long learning process and takes a lot of patience of a waiting time. Yep, join the club....lol Few questions...... Can you tell us what type jars your using and what wicks? Are you single wicking or double wicking? I would think single wicking for now. If you haven't done so, start reading up here on this forum and use the search bar for anything and everything. There is such a wealth of knowledge here it's unbelievable. You could spend weeks and months just learning here. I myself find it very entertaining myself and spend hours here just learning. And real nice folks here who will help you, no matter how stupid or dumb a question you may think you have. 464 wax is a real nice wax to work with and Candle Science is my most favorite supplier. I use that wax and can tell you that most of the oils from them are great throwers so it's just a matter of learning how to make the 3 of them work together, the wax, oil, and wicks and definitely a cure time is needed like everyone has mentioned. One thing I noticed is your percentage of wax used for the 1 oz oil. Most chandlers (me too) generally use 1 pound of wax to 1oz oil so since you are just learning and I'm supposing you have enough wax, try experimenting with those percentages. And you could pour hotter than 125 too. Most likely is the cure time for your problem. Too much oil can clog a wick depending...and your throw will suffer. Just have to remember the name of the game here is test, test, test and then more test, test, test....It's never ending. Nice to meet you. Trappeur 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belinda Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You might want to consider making and selling tart/melts before candles if you are in a hurry to get started. I have made a few candles but not nearly enough to sell them yet except to family and friends, and I can tell you I've spent thousands of dollars and have barely got going. There is tons of information on this board and many here that are so very willing to help. I've learned so much from these experienced as well as new people on here and I'm sure you will too! Also, from what I've gathered by different posts, it seems to me that soy is a harder wax to get to throw a scent. Maybe you should try a para/soy wax like 6006. You will have the creaminess of soy but a stronger throw since it has paraffin. At least that's what I'm gathering in the info I'm reading. I could be coming to the wrong conclusion though. Good luck and remember, don't forget to ask questions! I wish I had found this board when I first started. I would've saved myself some time and a little money! LOL! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 OldGlory was not exaggerating when she stated it will cost thousands before you have a safe, great candle to sell and yes, it will take many months if not longer before you produce a saleable candle. For soy, cure time is a must and as the others stated, 7-14 days is standard for each oil being tested. Wicking plays a big part in ht as well. And that does not mean when you find the right wick, that it will work with every fo. There are no short cuts when it comes to testing. There is a vast amount of info on the forum and it will cut down on a lot of tears and hair pulling if you take the time to research and read through it. We're here to help and support one another but we each have to do the leg work...what works for one does not mean it will work for all...hth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am so sorry... In my frustration I forgot to say thanks for replying .... Sorry hope both of you forgive me.... Yes it is hard but we need another source of income as soon as possible and candles are something we have loved for a long time and we really want to make a go of this because we both have a passion for it.I really hate to say this but, as I previously mentioned, this is a craft that is going to require a lot of money and a lot of time before you are able to produce something is marketable. There isn't an experienced candlemaker on this board that would disagree with that. Before you sink a lot of time, money, and effort into this craft, maybe you should explore other ways to produce a quick income. Keep working on your candles because it is definitely worth the investment, but don't count on it for the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks everyone.. Let me ask this do you guys think it is possible to make as good if not better candle(sent throw) as Yankee and gold canyon??? Seriously is it really a possibility??? I don't want to fool myself into thinking it is when there is no way to compete with them .. Do they use the same wax and FOs as the rest of us?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 it is definitely possible!They won't tell us what wax and FOs they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Ditto what everyone said above except that if you need a fast other source of income this is NOT itI am not being discouraging here at all but truthful- I had the same idea and plan as you back in 2008 and after about 5 waxes and 4 years I have a candle system that works AND is safeSafety is number one in this game and if you plan to sell you need to plan on several years- several thousands of dollars and a GOOD insurance policyThis is extremely fun- addicting and rewarding when you get it right but fast money will not happen- if there is a market for melts in your area you may want to start there as you could be ready with a good product in less time but read all the threads you can and take notes....come up with a plan that fits what your looking to produce and test test test - if your set in soy read all the veggie wax threads- if your interested in paraffin read those and so onHave fun with it but be realistic as well- a safe candle just cannot be made quickly and even if so selling them and getting people to notice your brand is just as time consuming - you don't want to be the one selling junk and ruining an image that hasn't even been brought to life yet464 is a good wax but like already stated it needs a cure time and wicks matter in soy big time and the type of jar your using plays a huge role as well- if you can give us all your information on your system from start to finish and all products used we can offer suggestions and advice to help more but it still will not make a candle ready to sell anytime soon Edited September 30, 2014 by moonshine 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks everyone.. Let me ask this do you guys think it is possible to make as good if not better candle(sent throw) as Yankee and gold canyon??? Seriously is it really a possibility??? I don't want to fool myself into thinking it is when there is no way to compete with them .. Do they use the same wax and FOs as the rest of us??It is absolutely possible- better even! LolAs far as what they use I don't think anyone knows and it really doesn't matter....they have sources untouchable to us I imagine but of your willing to put in the time and money you will see how very much possible it is....since 2008 I still don't think I have recovered my investment but I love it enough to keep going and I have a few big accounts now but this is a side thing for me. You won't be wasting your time if your willing to realize it will take a couple years to get a perfect system with a good variety of scents 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I used 2 ECO 14 wicks.. We thought two would be better.. The jar is 3/14 in diameter . I am using a 12oz tumbler with an actual pour amount of about 9.5 oz or so... I purchased some paraffin as well from CS.. They seem really nice and have answered all my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Starting out I would try working with 1 wick rather than 2 - I am not familiar with your jar but based on 3 1/4" diameter 1 Eco 14 should be plenty - 2 I would guess your going to have a torch going making the jar way to hot- you don't want a deep melt pool - I am not experienced in double wicking but I would think a jar that size you would have to lower to like a 6Another series of wicks that work great in 464 are the CD's and the HTP's....after curing the eco's and your not getting the throw you want you may consider trying one of those 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I was just doing some research and I found this site that proposes adding FO to soy at 155 degrees and not 185... As a newbie I would think it would be better at a lower temp as to not burn off but most every place else reads to add FO at 185. Any opinions ? http://www.scentednest.com/content.php?content_id=1007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry hope both of you forgive me.... Yes it is hard but we need another source of income as soon as possible and candles are something we have loved for a long time and we really want to make a go of this because we both have a passion for it.No worries - I haven't read through the whole thread yet but I'm sure it's been said many times, but I want to reiterate - candlemaking is not a "make money quick" type of endeavor. It takes a lot of money, a lot of patience and a lot of time and testing. All equally important as the rest. Also what might not be mentioned here, before you start selling (even if you have perfected your craft to the best possible outcome you could possibly have) get insurance. It really is a must - especially when dealing with candles and the unpredictable way people burn them. ***And now through reading the rest of the thread I guess I am just paraphrasing what others have said, but now you have it from several sources. Good luck in your endeavors. Don't give up, and don't be discouraged. When you have questions, come, ask and we will all try to help as much as possible. Welcome to the board. Thanks everyone.. Let me ask this do you guys think it is possible to make as good if not better candle(sent throw) as Yankee and gold canyon??? Seriously is it really a possibility??? I don't want to fool myself into thinking it is when there is no way to compete with them .. Do they use the same wax and FOs as the rest of us??With time, patience and testing testing testing? ABSOLUTELY it is. In most (but obviously not all) handcrafted and homemade candles are much superior to Yankee and GC simply because we do take the time and effort to perfect our craft where as all they are looking for is the bottom line and profit and machine make their candles and IMO use inferior products. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) I know this has been said a few thousand times but take 15% of your 464 and mix it with 85% 6006 wax. Pour at 185 degrees into room temp jars and let cool uncovered. Straight sided containers are the easiest to wick. CD wicks are good for this wax blend and using 6 to 7% fragrance oil should give you plenty of cold and hot throw without the need for an extended cure time. Color if you like with a good liquid coloration and don't worry about burning off your fragrance oil or about the flash temp. Buy a bag of craft sticks from wally world, stack them up and make a hole in the middle with a small drill bit with a drill and buy a bag of black clips that are used for holding papers together and you have great wick holders that will last a lifetime. I use the two-sided squares hanger squares from 3m at wally world for wick stickers and they work like a charm. You cut your squares up into 8 sections and using the empty sleeve of a meat thermometer, run your wick through it and hold while putting on your wick sticker and then center it at the bottom of the jar, run the wick through the hole in the stick and clip it off. Now your ready to pour your mixed wax. Get a good scale, a heat gun, an oven thermometer with the long silver cord and a metal probe and always buy new fragrance oils in 1 or 2 ounce amounts for the purpose of testing. You can buy or print your own warning labels, as well as your jar labels and save a lot of do rem mi. Invest $20.00 in a Presto Pot at wally world and stop using double boiler method. There's no reason you can't be up and running if you are smart. Enlist friends and family to test your candles and give you feedback. Once your satisfied with the overall effectiveness and safety of your product; build a small base of customers and keep your fragrance line small and simple for the time being. I love private label wholesale accounts but they are for later on in your business. There is a ton of competition in candles and you really don't want to attempt imitation of Yankme or any other mass marketed candles; focus on marketing a hand made, with love candles that are the best bang for the buck and offer different fragrances from the other guys. Be creative, be smart and have fun. Everything else will follow naturally if you pay attention. HTH Steve Edited September 30, 2014 by chuck_35550 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Steve, Can I mix IGI 4630 Harmony Blend Wax and Golden Brands 464 Soy Wax?????? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You can. I didn't care for the results as much as I did for the 6006 but its not a bad blend. I know there are straight soy chandlers who love their medium but I don't recommend it for starting out. There is just such a learning curve with pure soy. A little paraffin really stabilizes soy withouth too much sooting. Remember that vanillin and some spices will cause sooting and wick clogging. I try to stay away from strong vanilla or vanillin fragrances for that very reason. The 6006 has an amount of soy that adding the soy brings the amount up to near balance (some debate as to the percentages) that makes it very easy to wick. One rule holds true in making candles: Know thy wax. Settle on a wax and learn it inside and out before moving on to the next thing. Mason jars are a good container to start and resist the urge to pour wax into every good deal at the dollar store. Container + wax + wick + fragrance oil + color=candle. I started with votives and was glad for it. Votives with a nice holder in a cello bag with a label at a small price can be very creative. HTH Steve 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flair Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Oh.. Do you add FO at 185?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yes. My turkey fryer keeps the wax at 200 degrees and I measure out on my scale the amount to be poured and then keep the pour pot (pyrex coffee pot) on an electric double burner with the thermometer probe for monitoring. You'll find that some fragrances are practically the same, no matter where you buy them. Black Cherry is a great example, as well as most almonds or other blending oils. Customers do not, as a rule, sit around and analyze what note opened first and how did the fragrance finish; they just want to know that the fragrance will smell reasonably good all over the house or apartment. I know people who sell a straight, plain jelly jar with no label at trade or flea markets for about $5.00 a jar and sell the hound out of them. I see candles in specialty shops and boutiques that need dusting. Marketing is fine but the average Sheila just wants thing to burn right and smell good. HTH Steve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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