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Selling question


amandak

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Hi Amandak, Yes. Although you have tested and feel like you have made perfect candles, consumers can and will always blame you for the product that you made. Even though a warning label is on the product, the truth is a lot of consumers do whatever they want with a product once they purchase it.

 

That is why it is great to have insurance to cover you in case someone wants to blame you for making a faulty candle, even if they did leave it burning all day lol.

 

I sold some candles to this lady, she told my husband that my candle almost burned down her store because she left a candle burning. She sat it on top of something but when she closed the door the candle fell over but fortunately she saw it. This goes to show how customers do silly things with a lit candle. The bottom line is cover yourself incase someone decides to do something silly with a candle. So, yes you need insurance and can be blamed.

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My two cents. First, product liability insurance is very, very expensive and very hard to get. A general liability policy is what we recommend. Much cheaper and covers everything except the actual product ingredients and how it burns. With or without insurance, product liability or general, you can always get sued by anyone over anything.  This is America (tongue in cheek).  Whether they can win is another matter. Can they prove your product was at fault or defective? Placing a lit candle under a roll of paper towels is not your fault. I would not worry much about it. A lawyer will not take a case unless you are heavily insured and there is a reasonable doubt that you are at fault; then they go for an out of court settlement with your insurance company; or, they take the case on a retainer (meaning they are getting their money up front and have little to no chance of winning the suit). We have been in business for sixteen years and sell lots of products and have never been sued. We have had customers who misused the product  causing them damage and then they called us. I handle those calls. Basically, I tell them where they are at fault, that it is not our liability. Period.

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Most craft shows require you to have insurance and list the craft show as additionally insured on your policy, along with having your state documents in order to collect sales tax.  If you don't have insurance and someone sues you, plan on losing everything you own & then some, if they win.  At least with insurance, they pay for the lawyers, etc.  If you don't want to sell legally, then maybe you should pick another hobby and give up candle making!

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What if im only going to do a craft fair here and there do i still need it? Its costly for both for only selling a few times?..

You are selling to a stranger you do not know them or their habits. You do not know what kind of person they are. This is a sue happy world we live in. People will sue for anything if they think they can get it. Think about this and it will blow your mind. If someone falls in your booth they can make a claim against your insurance.

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Im asking questions so I can better be informed and get what i absolutely need. I thought this would be a good place to ask. Ive never done a craft fair nor have i sold anything like this. So how am i supposed to know someone can sue you for slipping or breaking a glass or whatever else exp when its their fault. Im new to that aspect and wanted some help and can do with out some of the snarky replies. Thank you to those who were nice and helped. Is the insurance based off of state like car/home? I only found one is there a specific site I can be guided towards for more companies?

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Im asking questions so I can better be informed and get what i absolutely need. I thought this would be a good place to ask. Ive never done a craft fair nor have i sold anything like this. So how am i supposed to know someone can sue you for slipping or breaking a glass or whatever else exp when its their fault. Im new to that aspect and wanted some help and can do with out some of the snarky replies. Thank you to those who were nice and helped. Is the insurance based off of state like car/home? I only found one is there a specific site I can be guided towards for more companies?

I know you are new and I was not being snarky I was being honest. Most people in general have no idea that people can sue you for stupid reason. I was trying to educate.

 

In this thread are some link to insurance that crafters use.

http://www.craftserver.com/topic/103728-small-and-indie-business-insurance-product-liability/

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Sometimes answers on forums can come off glib even if they were not intended in that manner. Some have been doing this for 20+ years and some of us are newer. I have just been doing this a couple of years so I am still new, myself! What is second nature for some is still something some of us have questions about. Those questions may seem very basic and likely repetitive as we have asked them over and over! This is a forum where we should all be able to ask questions without simply being told to use the search bar, google it or move on to a different craft. That is the point of a forum.

 

The answers you received are correct. You would definitely want insurance if you plan to sell candles. I worked through my homeowners insurance agent. I only sell melts so nothing with a wick that becomes a flame. I did not have insurance from the start. I do now and should have earlier. Just being honest. I certainly need it now that my business is nationwide (I sell online). I still do place warning labels on my bags of melts. I provided my agent with photographs of my set up and detail on how I make my products. I answered a million questions on inventory on hand, cost of equipment on hand, if I have customers coming in my home, if I sell at events, how many per year and much more. My policy is exactly what I needed and I do not pay for liability that I will not need (for things I do not sell like bath and body products and candles).

 

I did 4 artisan events last year. None required insurance nor asked that they be added to my insurance in any way. I have discovered that while I made several hundred dollars in a one day show, markets and shows are not my thing. Working from home on weekends suits me better. I made the decision not to participate in any events this year save the one held at my corporation as it gets tons of guests and costs me nothing. Tables and tents are provided, I show up and sell. Otherwise, I market well through Facebook and several Facebook groups and can do it in air conditioning and in my jammies! haha!

 

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions. PM me if you'd rather.

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I guess it depends on the state you are in. In Texas (a business friendly state) I only remember one craft show we did that required a general liability policy. It is smart to have at least minimal insurance, but necessary? No. Think about it. In our sue-happy, liberal country people sue to get money from real or imagined injuries. My attorney told me that insurance actually encourages lawsuits. Who are you going to sue? A normal person with few to no assets and no insurance or...a normal person with an insurance policy? Lawyers go on fishing expeditions to find out if you have assets their client can go after or an insurance policy that they can threaten with a big lawsuit and then get an out-of-court settlement. If they find you don't have deep pockets or insurance, they go back to their client and ask for a large retainer up-front. In my opinion, the odds of you getting sued are very slim and losing a court case almost non-existent. Assuming you have done your due-diligence and make good products. And as far as one of the above posts said about losing everything you have? Again it depends on the state; in Texas you can't lose much at all. In the liberal states...good luck. I wonder how many who subscribe to this bulletin board have ever gotten sued and the result. We know, after many years in the business, a large number of chandlers and know of no one who has had a suit brought against them. So, my advice to you would be not to worry about it until your sales reach a large enough level to justify insurance. HTH and don't listen to the doom-sayers who try to get you to imagine the worst possible scenario.

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I guess it depends on the state you are in. In Texas (a business friendly state) I only remember one craft show we did that required a general liability policy. It is smart to have at least minimal insurance, but necessary? No. Think about it. In our sue-happy, liberal country people sue to get money from real or imagined injuries. My attorney told me that insurance actually encourages lawsuits. Who are you going to sue? A normal person with few to no assets and no insurance or...a normal person with an insurance policy? Lawyers go on fishing expeditions to find out if you have assets their client can go after or an insurance policy that they can threaten with a big lawsuit and then get an out-of-court settlement. If they find you don't have deep pockets or insurance, they go back to their client and ask for a large retainer up-front. In my opinion, the odds of you getting sued are very slim and losing a court case almost non-existent. Assuming you have done your due-diligence and make good products. And as far as one of the above posts said about losing everything you have? Again it depends on the state; in Texas you can't lose much at all. In the liberal states...good luck. I wonder how many who subscribe to this bulletin board have ever gotten sued and the result. We know, after many years in the business, a large number of chandlers and know of no one who has had a suit brought against them. So, my advice to you would be not to worry about it until your sales reach a large enough level to justify insurance. HTH and don't listen to the doom-sayers who try to get you to imagine the worst possible scenario.

David brings up a good point, how many chandlers have had a suit brought against them?  And lost everything?  Is there a data base that can be referenced for that information?  I have been curious about this for many years.  I am in no way implying that insurance is a bad thing.   Our local craft shows do not require insurance.  Is that unusual?

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Here in Michigan people sue for looking at you wrong....most all of our commercials are for attorneys for ridiculous reasons....my opinion is carry insurance because you never know who is going to go after you for whatever reason

I know a lady from school sports that made a career out of suing- once she won one and had money to back her she did a domino effect on dozens more people for various reasons and won every time- I will not sell to her ever!

There could be truth in the fact that research is done to see if insurance is in place and deep pockets to go after someone but I am not willing to risk my house and all my personal assets over a candle

My commercial insurance only asked me what I make and sell and where I get my wicks from- that's it....and I have 1 million in liability for 725.00 a year and that way if something comes up they can deal with it and I am covered

It's your choice to carry or not....have you Been making candles for very long? Do you know and have a pattern of consistency on how your products behave? If not than I highly recommend protection, if so than you may be just fine if your willing to take the risk

Warning labels and product use instructions are necessary and act as a type of protection but for me, it's not enough- too many people don't read them

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Here in Michigan people sue for looking at you wrong....most all of our commercials are for attorneys for ridiculous reasons....my opinion is carry insurance because you never know who is going to go after you for whatever reason

I know a lady from school sports that made a career out of suing- once she won one and had money to back her she did a domino effect on dozens more people for various reasons and won every time- I will not sell to her ever!

There could be truth in the fact that research is done to see if insurance is in place and deep pockets to go after someone but I am not willing to risk my house and all my personal assets over a candle

My commercial insurance only asked me what I make and sell and where I get my wicks from- that's it....and I have 1 million in liability for 725.00 a year and that way if something comes up they can deal with it and I am covered

It's your choice to carry or not....have you Been making candles for very long? Do you know and have a pattern of consistency on how your products behave? If not than I highly recommend protection, if so than you may be just fine if your willing to take the risk

Warning labels and product use instructions are necessary and act as a type of protection but for me, it's not enough- too many people don't read them

I sat on a jury a few years back with a plaintiff suing a car wash for damages (in the 6 figure range) after he roared into the car bay on his motorcycle on a below zero morning and his bike slid out from under him.  Well duh...,  This was how he made his living, The defendants attorney was able to enter into evidence his prior lawsuits.  This was given to the jury in the jury deliberations room, not presented in court, with the plantiff's attorney's approval.  Numerous suits for slip and falls, stair rails breaking causing him to fall, and on and on.   Before the jury looked at this, the majority wanted to give him the award, 3 of us held out, as we felt he did not use common sense and there is an expectation of self responsibility...below zero temperature early in the morning, car wash, water = ice, = bike sliding out from ones behind when roaring into the car bay=bad decision and a bonked head.   We did end up giving him payment for the doctor's exam, and the car wash had to put up caution signs saying Caution, May be Icy in Winter.  I guess my point is that perhaps juries are in too much of a hurry to overlook some of these things and go home, thereby encouraging people to play this disgusting game of frivolous lawsuits.  His total award....$400.00, which was $400.00 more than he should have received IMO.  I am glad the insurance company did not settle, on this one at least.  This is not to say that there are not legitimate lawsuits but really some of these things clogging up the courts is discouraging!

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Thank you all for the helpful information.

Vicky_CO I know you were helping but my last post was just a general statement. I will look at that site thank you.

Moonshine what company do you get your insurance from?

Thank you for all the info David Fields. I will be moving back to Texas soon and may get a house. I have one small child with another on the way and wouldnt want sonething to happen to lose my home etc. But I just wanted to know if the insurance was absolutely necessary since people sue no matter what. And you lawyer said just what I was thinking so idk. The insurances i found are very expensive exp for if you want to just start a business and shows with your own start up money.

Thank you for your reply Simple Fragrant.

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What is the minimal insurance? Also since im looking at testinf the waters with a crafts show just one for now if i didnt do insurance could a typed up signed paper from.custimers work? Basically in the gist it would say they hold me free from any liability etc dont think people would sign but im just curious if it could work because if they did sign then they cant sue etc...

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Is there a one time insurance i can get for a craft show that will cover everything i need? Anyone know how they work maybe? Like if someone buys a candle then 6mo to a yr later uses it and trys to sue will that insurance from that show cover it? Etc..

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I don't know the answer to that but I would have to think not- there would be no way to track the product and someone could very well not burn the candle for a couple years....I would guess once you decide your a business and sell to the public you keep that insurance until you no longer have the business

Also as a consumer I would never sign a "waiver" from someone I am buying from- that would be a huge red flag of their confidence in their product to me -this is just my opinion but the candle business is not just to figure out how to make a quick buck and take the cheap route to do so- you need to have a safe reliable product and insurance to back you for fluke accidents that can happen

I'm not trying to be discouraging but truthful

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Moonshine im not trying to make a quick buck just want to do a fair to test the waters. I enjoy making for myself/family but not sure how id like selling. I want to be protected but tgey sure make it hard to see if its something you would dven enjoy! 500 plus ia alot to pay just to see how id like selling. To see if id like the mass quanity, deadline, packaging etc.

I also wouldn't sign a paper but figured id ask lol.

Thats one part i dont get. You get insurance for while your sell/are a business. But some people might not use the candle for years or you go out of business. Then what?, you no longer have the insurance so what if someone then trys to sue you your not covered.. its like a catch 22 or whatever its called.

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I am guessing again but if the business doesn't exist anymore there is nothing to go after for a lawsuit. We could never collect money owed to us from builders that went bankrupt so I think the same applies as to closing a business / it doesn't operate anymore so there is nothing to go after

You have choices of protection when legally starting a business as well as far as a sole proprietor- LLC or corporation - the last 2 protect you personally but insurance still needs to be in place for liability - they can't go after you personally, only the business

And even making and giving to family and friends you need to be careful....nobody likes to think they would blame you for an accident but you never know- there are many threads on this subject to read

Good luck to you and sorry I couldn't help more

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