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My first votive testers


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Ok I may need a pep talk here.

 

Yesterday I melted a pound of 4625 and added in an oz of Candle Makers Store Blueberry Cobbler at roughly 185F. Stirred for roughly 3 mins. No dye. Poured at roughly 160F into poly molds. 

 

Results: The house smelled like kerosene. Significant shrinkage after around 30 mins. Repoured, and waited. Very crumbly when popping out of the molds. Color was akin to a pale neon green glow stick. The repour only adhered to half of the 10 candles I made. Furthermore, the candles have almost like a 2-tone thing going on. Slightly lighter on the top half than the bottom half. Both opaque.

 

Please give me some thoughts on this. I'm trying to remain optimistic, but getting quite discouraged...

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You are relatively new to this so don't get discouraged. Would you post a picture of what you're talking about please? 

 

Even with the wax I use, I have the repour pop off from time to time. It tends to happen, IMO, because the repour doesn't bind too well with the wax. There are things to do, but I would like to see a few things first. Since I can't be there to watch, I am hoping I can get you to take a pix of each process and post here. I ask, because I would like a better idea of what's going on. 

I'd like to see the wax melted, then with the fragrance added and also stirred in as well as your pours and when you repour. 

 

Color of your oil that you poured? If I'm not mistaken, I think blueberry can change color. I haven't used the kind you are talking about though. 

 

Tricks to get that repour to stick: 

Pour hotter than your initial pour

Poke relief holes

Heat gun the tops before you make that repour

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Guest OldGlory

I don't work with the wax you are using, so I can't guide you on how to improve. I have heard that bakery Blueberry FOs cause color issues when using dye but I have no experience with them either.

 

Learning to make candles correctly is a long, tedious process, with thousands of hours of testing and recording results - different FOs, different wicks, different waxes ALL equal different results. I take a piece of masking tape and write the type of wax, the amount of FO used (as a %), the source of the FO, and the size and type of wick, and put it on the bottom of my tester. I record all results, good and bad, and refer back to it often so that I am not tempted to repeat the same mistake. And because I use soy wax and a parasoy blend, I test every single box. Soy, being a 'natural' ingredient, can be different in every box.

You have to commit to the process. Spending $1000 or more on initial testing is very realistic, but think of how well you will know your product when you are done! So here are my words of encouragement: You have months of testing ahead of you BUT you will eventually get there if this is important to you. If I can do it, you can do it. *drunken posting*

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Re-reading, I see that I was supposed to pour at 180F. I suppose that 20 degree difference makes up a big part of the problem. I'd love to post pics, alas my digital camera is being temperamental. There's not much to see anyway really, it's clear wax (water-like) in a presto pot. Pours perfectly from the tapper, begins to cloud after 2-3 mins., mostly solid 35 mins-ish. I only had the 1oz tester.

 

Afterward, I cleaned the presto and did another pound- this time with one called Blueberry Streudel. Smelled WAY better. Again, no dye. These turned out about the same color as raw yellow beeswax lol... good news this time is that there's no 2-tone thing happening. Still issues w repour separation.

 

Gonna move on to some coffee FO's tonight I think. My goal is a scented chunk votive and thus:

 

1) I shouldn't be upset about repour separation (it's just in my extreme analytical nature to need to know why it's happening;

 

2) I'm using the wrong wax to begin with. I need translucency, so I need to order some 1343. Thinking the scents should be relatively/proportionately similar.

 

If I can get pics, I certainly will share!

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You don't need to add vybar to 1343. It gets along fine with steric. However if you're looking for a clear overpour with 1343, you'll need microcystalline instead of steric. 

 

Your colored non-dyed wax is getting its color from the fragrance most likely. It could get it from being scorched if you melted it at too high of a heat and let it  come down from there. Can't really say, just that I've been there before.

The reason the top pops off is that the second pour didn't adhere very well to your initial pour. You could try pouring 10 degrees hotter, but it's just easier to poke relief holes and not have to mess with much else. 

In turn, you get the shrinkage from the wax. There's probably less shrink in using the 1343 would be my guess. That's why I wanted to see your pictures to see a few things: 

 

1) Two tone almost indicates to me that not all of your fragrance blended

2) The amount of shrinkage of the wax is typically a result of how hot you poured (has been my experience.) I used a type of votive wax years ago and poured at 180 and I had deep caverns when it cooled off. Kind of cool looking, but a royal pain when it came to getting smooth tops on the votives. 

3) I wanted to see the differences in your wax when melted and with the FO added. I know what it looks like when there's a oil slick on the bottom from fragrance not blending in ... even if it appears clear. 

4) Can't help  you on your chemical smell. Did that carry over into the final product too? If it did, in the future I would try less FO to the batch and/or call the supplier. 

5) Most scents throw in 1343. 

6) At 160, with a pour on a wax that suggests 180, I cannot imagine why the top was crumbly, Could be the release from the polycarb molds. Sounds like it was missing something really. You can pour at different ranges with that 1343 and not get that crumbly. However, I'm not a fan of polycarb molds because the FO eats them up. I never got extended wear so to speak on the polys I used. Good thing I never dove into using the ones I bought out of Europe. It would shatter me to have those make it through only 2-3 uses. 

7) I would double check your temps just a precautionary and make sure you're getting the correct readings. 

Edited by Scented
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You don't need to add vybar to 1343. It gets along fine with steric. However if you're looking for a clear overpour with 1343, you'll need microcystalline instead of steric. 

 

Your colored non-dyed wax is getting its color from the fragrance most likely. It could get it from being scorched if you melted it at too high of a heat and let it  come down from there. Can't really say, just that I've been there before.

I meant to indicate that it has no additives and therefore additives I do not use additives so I used vybar as a for instance) would need to be considered where the 4625 is a complete wax.

 

I should take a picture of the turkey fryer full of wax that I poured today. I do not dye my wax and my melts, as I stand now and label them, range from pure white to yellow. Just as you suggested, the FO alters the color of the wax.

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Yea I just had a really dark Patchouli turn my wax tan, which alters the dye. I'm just hoping the whole batch doesn't go back to brown as has been the tendency for this particular patch. 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood on the vybar. While 1343 is a straight paraffin and will need additives to perform better, I didn't want the OP to think vybar was a must ... (though sometimes it is to help a handful of fragrances bind with the was. A few come to mind from AH/RE I believe it was for me, otherwise I tend to stay away from using it.)

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The second batch I did had a much darker FO OOB. It was also much more stubborn when blending (added in at about 190F on both FO's). As soon as I hit the tapper, the first few drops of wax came with unblended oil spots. So... I need a better blending method apparently. Perhaps an automatic stirring aperture rigged to it.

 

This project has the side effect of inventing things. My presto will not just have the tapper, but also have a built in retractable thermometer apparatus, auto-stir, bi-directional caster wheels that will run along a track, on an adjustable height AND angle surface... lol

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Try a couple of things with the FOs that won't blend right away: 

 

1) Use less per pound

2) Warm the ones you know will be buggers (unfortunately that's a oh-look-at-this ... 

3) Add a few grains of vybar 103 for pillar waxes or get you some 363 from Candle Wic and see if it helps any. (Since you're working with a blended wax already, don't add very much...we're talking grains of the stuff and less than 1/4 tsp if using 103, but the 343 you shave off off a block.) 

 

There are fragrances out there that just won't blend. I had the problem with a White Tea & Ginger; Rapture and Warm Vanilla Nutmeg ... less seemed to work on the WVN, vybar and using less on the Rapture and nothing worked with WTG

Edited by Scented
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Since I know I'm going to use the 1343 anyway, I'm thinking I'll use the remaining 8 lbs of 4625 for chunks, w the 1343 for overpour. I realize 4625 is a higher melt point, but have any of you tried it or know someone who has? Any comments on the results?

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My experience with 4625 and FOs is that some of them are heavier than others (any of the Vanillas) and that could explain the two-tone nature of the votives - as the wax hardens, the FO settles close to the bottom and leaves the top almost untouched.  It's actually one of the reasons why I abandoned 4625 even though I did love how they turned out when everything went right - 4625 can be touchy.  The best way that I found to combat it was once you add the FO, you've got to stir and stir it hard - almost whisk the wax for several minutes then let the bubbles settle and then pour.  If memory serves me right - any of the Blueberry scents are heavy oils - I would almost bet that's part of the problem.

 

I mixed 4625 and 1343 when I started experimenting with 1343 and you do have to watch close in how it burns and how you wick it.  If using the 1343 as an overpour with the 4625 as chunks - aim your wicking just a tad higher than you normally would for a straight 1343 pour because the wax ratio between the two will be slightly higher 4625 and less 1343 by volume.  The goal here is to have both waxes burn at the same rate and that's the best solution I found - wick a little higher than normal.

 

Sidenote on 1343 - I have used vybar with it in the past with minimal trouble as far as looks are concerned but watch your ratios and use less vybar than what you think you need - vybar can choke a candle from its scent in a hurry if your ratio is wrong.  Since you are relatively new to this, I would strongly suggest no vybar experimentation until you get your formulas down to an art - even with all the years I've poured candles, I still had a helluva time getting it right and always remember that my results and your results will be two different animals.  I abandoned vybar years ago and now go with microcrystalline wax and Universal Additive.  I get amazing colors from the U.A. and the microcrystalline wax makes the 1343 extremely translucent (check out my Enchanted Apple pillar in the Candle Gallery - I used micro wax 195 on that overpour and it was almost completely see-through).  I even dropped stearic from my candles once I found the U.A. - that's all I use and get some damn good results with it.

 

Scented is right about the heatgun and the tops of the votives for better adhesion between the layers - especially with 1343.  Give yourself a good pool of melted wax (all the way to the edges) and then do your second pour and relief holes are a must with 1343 - you will get some really funky looking candles if you don't.  Also, your second pour needs to be at least 10* higher for good adhesion.

 

Something else to consider is room temperature when you pour and make sure you have zero drafts.  I had an issue with 1218 mushrooming as it cooled and had someone suggest that my basement might have drafts.  After I did some investigating, I found out that I did have drafts and the room temperature was too cold and had to move my operations upstairs during the winter months.

 

HTH

 

Edited to add:  http://www.craftserver.com/topic/104427-enchanted-apple/ <----link to the Enchanted Apple

Edited by CandleKitty
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I started with AstorLite V wax (now IGI 4641A) with the metal molds and wick pins. Sometimes a little hard to get out of the molds but a very dependable paraffin votive wax. Blueberry is notorious for morphing color and according to the source, can smell plastic or artificial. Bakery Fragrances depend on vanilla, unless the formulation specifies little or no vanilla in the specs. Read those details about what kind of carrier oil is used and the amount of vanillin or vanilla and especially reviews of others. If the distributor doesn't provide you with details on site or by email or phone; go somewhere else. Most of the time you get information as to the color of the oil, the weight and other important info that decides the use of what color or no color. Creme Brulee is a very heavy and yellow to tan colored candle that I don't color because it really doesn't work well with color and looks ok, in my opinion. Those small amounts of wax are going to harden pretty quick and you could come back and heat your remaining wax a little hotter and do your repour after you finish filling all of them up and you should get a pretty good bond. The heavy fragrance oil may need to be stirred all through the time you are pouring to insure that you have a good suspension. The fragrance oil is suspended in the wax and never blends (you can tell by looking at it).  HTH

 

Steve

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Thank you guys n dolls. I've done little else since New Years other than eat, sleep, and breathe candle research. Oh, and work full-time midnight shifts.

 

I need to take a step back for a few weeks and regroup. I have the luxury of being able to now, since I'm still only in the formative stages. When I return, I'll definitely reference this page often!

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