Glassfishy

I think that did it. I will have to do more testing as I go to fully make sure, but I think I was getting in a hurry and doing the water at too low of a temperature. Proof is in the pudding. Looks perfect on the 2 batches I did this morning. Thank you two for helping out.

Made 2 batches this morning. Wanted to clarify. I make single batches of scents, but I melt my oils/butters/ewax in large pot and just measure out what I need for a single batch before adding water/FO/Preserve. I had my water at 170 and oils at 145 and when blended was around 157-160. I blended first and then add FO and let cool to 130. Added Optiphen Plus and then blended some more. Noticeably less foam. I will let you know if it's like it should be. Again, this problem pops up periodically so I know it's a process issue. I think it was really the low temps I was adding my water at and it separating out. Time will tell. Thanks again. Steve

And I typically figure out the number of batches I need to make and melt them all in my big stock pot. Again, I leave the sunflower oil out until everything is melted and ready to go.

Like right now as far as OIls/ewax/butters each batch is 44.8 oz oils and my water is 100 oz water. What I had been doing was pouring say 67 or so ounces of really hot water and then tempering it with room temp water. Again, not really any consistency. This nets me about (30+) 4 oz bottles. I have over 35 scents so not doing it in bulk I would never get anything done. If I can get my oil temp and water temp consistent I think it will solve my issues. We have always used Natures Garden Silky Ewax and it's always been consistent even though its more expensive than what I can buy from say soapers choice. I just have hesitated to switch. People love our lotion. It's a thick non-greasy lotion so I hate messing with the formula.

OK. Sorry for not immediately replying back. Long 4th of July Weekend. I think you both are right on the money. I feel my temps are way too low. Years ago when we started making lotion there was one time I made it at a low temperature and we felt that it created more foam. We had tried a different ewax at the time so we chalked it up to that. Ever since then we always did the higher temps 160+ and mixed oils/ewax/water/fragrance as suggested above. At the time we used regular optiphen from NG and it was heat tolerant to 140 but they always suggested adding around 120. So we would cool down to 120 or close and add optiphen. We never had any issues. When we switched to buying it in bulk from Ingredients to die for they had the optiphen plus which is heat tolerate to 176. So. somewhere along the way I started adding the optiphen at a higher temperate at the same time I added the fragrance. All of this would be in line with what happened last week. The first 2 batches I made the water was hotter because I had a large pot of water and as the water cooled so did my batch temps. SO... I will be doing a new test today doing it the old fashioned way... 160-170 water and then cooling before adding preservative. I will update. I've spent some time looking this weekend for a Point of Use Water Heater that I can output consistent water temperature controlled. My current process is just boiling a big pan of water which as you know when you're doing multiple batches and adding water to your pot it causes heat fluctuation. So the consistent temp is sorta out the window. I'm wanting like a small on demand water heater that's just for the purpose of outputting accurate temp water so that when I make water I'm not only more consistent but not waiting for water to heat up. Thanks for your help. I'll post back what I find.

All new ewax. Melted 9 full batches of oils and ewax into same pot. Different fragrances but all same frag we’ve used before. Fairly new batteries. I’m not sure if it’s a temp issue. I saw on other site wheee temp of water should be close to temp of oils. I’ve never worried about that but maybe I’m getting my water hotter. Would that change ending consistency. Again it is hit or miss. So unless my water temp is different. But it’s like two batches fine. Next one bad. Then 1 good then 2 bad.

First I'd like to start off by saying we have been making this same lotion recipe for 6-7 years. Our lotion is a THICK lotion and has to be squeezed from a bottle. Too thick to go through a pump. We have sporadically over the years had issues where the lotion was watery after it cooled, but the issues have been increasing and this last year I have thrown more bottles away than I like. Yesterday, I made over 15 different batches and I had to toss all but about 5. And it's not as if it was the first part of the batch or the last. The first 2 batches I made were just fine (pink sugar/butt naked). Then it was hit or miss. I don't know what's going on. I'm not sure if it's a separation issue or a condensation issue or an ingredient issue. All of our ingredients we get from the same supplier as we have for the 6-7 years. First our ingredients: Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Sunflower Oil, Shea Butter, Silky E-Wax (Natures Garden), Stearic Acid, Optiphen Plus, water and fragrance. All of our oils come from Soapers Choice. Earlier this year I thought perhaps the issue was that I had kept my oils in a vat warmer which I would constantly warm and cool. I would noticed how my Sunflower oil aged and had the rancid off smell so I then stopped using that warmer and would just melt oils as I needed them. The past few times I've made it I just load them in my biggest pot and melt them that way. Then we thought the issue was the warmth we were bottling the lotion. Years ago we used to just use Optiphen and the safe temp was 125 or less. The optiphen plus is more forgiving so sometimes I get patient, but I usually wait until it's below or right at 130 to bottle. I use the same measurements so it's not a mere fact of miscalculation on the amount of water added. Process: I melt my oils: Coconut/olive/sunflower/shea/ewax/stearic in pot. I usually add the sunflower last so it doesn't overheat. I keep temp on low on my stove top. I then heat my water and usually my temps after water added are between 125 and 145. I always cool to 132 or less. The only thing I started doing was immediately adding my optiphen and fragrance at the same time I add my water. I then stick blend trying to keep minimal amounts of foam down. I never let the foam go in the bottle. We bottle, cap and then let sit over night. PHOTOS BELOW: I have added photos of what I'm experiencing. The first photo is the bad lotion as it comes out of our squeeze bottles with flip caps. The 2nd and 3rd photo are the same lotion but we put in 8 oz amber jars. It's like it's solid and thicker (almost greasier) on the top and the bottom is like thickened milk. The 4th Photo is a good batch of what it's supposed to look like. This is our pink sugar (type) and the entire batch of it turned out OK. Am I not mixing enough? We always get foam on top in pan as well as my funnel/bottling system and I try not to over mix with stick blender to keep foam down. But I feel like it's a separation issue. My reasoning is the thicker sludge on top feels like it has more oils in it. And vice versa on my bottles they stand on the cap side so when I open the cap that's where the water is and the thicker lotion is at the top which has been on the top part of the bottle as it cools. So as the lotions cool they bottom part is more liquidy and less greasy and the top part is like where the oils are solidifying. I just feel this is a PROCESS issue and not an ingredient issue because if were an ingredient then ALL of my batches would turn out the same... Any help would be greatly appreciated. I tossed a lot of money including hard to come by bottles. THANKS!!! Will adding more ewax help keep things separated or is it merely I'm not mixing enough. Steve

I know this is an old thread. But The pouring wand has small metal tubes in the end. Imagine the old play-doh press where playdoh is forced through. The fragrance has a separate tube that goes all the way Into the hose and wand and fragrance only comes out at the tip where it’s forced through those tiny tubes and out wand.

I lucked Into getting a coogar wax melter/pumper used... it’s actually the Mark VII but looks exactly like the mark viii. I contacted Justin at coogar and they agreed to give me the training (paid) which i will be doing this Monday. Justin and the Coogar team have been super great to work with. I was able to talk directly with one of their techs who helped me see if everything worked properly... I had a few issues that I was able to work through and order parts (switch and leaking scent hose).. my hope is it will let me do not only candles and melts, but lotion bars, lotions and who knows what else... The kicker? I got it from a fellow soapmaker that and was planning to get into making candles. She had gotten it from her sister in California and when I bought it we both didn’t know if it even worked (other than that it melted)... i paid her $500. Hubby thought i was crazy... not knowing what they really cost. I have since found other eBay listings for $13,000 used... so... if it works the way it should I’d say I took a gamble and won... I’ll report back after i get the hang of it. Steve

sorry to be so chatty... I'm just so glad I can converse with others on this stuff. What brand do you have? I have looked at the ones at WaxMelters.com (which is where i got my Primo). They're a bit more expensive. Candlewic sells a 200# ($975) and 300# ($1350) water bath melter. I would love the 300#. That would allow me to load it with (3) days worth of soap making. WaxMelters.com has a 300# ($1855). Any other places?

Awesome... This is what I need to know. So you leave your water bath melter on all the time? I guess I've always been worried with candle wax as we use a blend of soy and paraffin wax. You know the old rumors of paraffin catching on fire. Even though I know my temp never goes above 190. Do you truly use water? I've heard others use propylene Glycol or Wesson cooking oil in place of the water to get a higher temperature and to keep it from evaporating. I love my Primo melter for my candles. I just want to get something bigger that I could also use for candles in the future if I'm doing extra large batches... I've got to do something different this year. We spend the last few months in a scurry and I'm not doing that again this year. I want to be stocked and loaded when October gets here... It's going to happen this year....

I posted this same message on the Soap Making Forum and for some reason my last 2 posts asking general questions have been deleted as BUSINESS posts... There were no business information in my ads and I can't get a clear answer from anyone to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I've read the rules and don't see anything I've violated. Anyway. I'm looking for advice from those who use Large Oil Melters for their lotion and soap making process. We currently have a 100# Primo Direct Heat Melter that I use for my Candles. I just purchased a used 65# Direct Heat (the one from CandleScience) to use for Lotions and I read varying information on whether direct heat should be used on bath and body. I am looking to purchase a Larger 200-250# Melter for my soap oils. On several occasions I have used my 100# melter when the wax was emptied out and I knew I was making soap the next day... I typically make (20) 5# batches in a single day (multiples of 4/5 soaps). I'm trying to streamline that process and have my oils ready when I walk in the door. I want the 250 because it will allow me to put (2) days worth of soap in there... A few things you might wonder... - I won't leave it on non-stop. I usually turn it on that day and off at night. My plan is to get a timer installed on whatever we buy so that when I come in it's ready to go. So I feel that a direct heat melter wouldn't really come into play because it will be heated only for 8 or less hours. - Wouldn't the Water Bath Melters also have hot spots? Like the Heating element is located at the bottom of most of them so I would think it's always going to be hotter at the bottom of the tank -vs- the top.. I'm just looking for ideas and advice from some that use their melters for the soaps and lotions... Steve Making Good Scentz p.s. if I've done something wrong in this post please let me know. I'm not intentionally doing so.

I contacted NGI today about the release date of the new Eco Soya... She says they were ready to send out samples out to their distributors last week, but had a production issue and it's being pushed back a few weeks... Hopefully within the month of June... At that time the distributors would have samples to send out to their customers... She says: The ECO Soya 210 Container Blend (will be most like Advanced) The ECO Soya 220 Container Blend (different but didn't allude to as what was different) The ECO Soyta 230 Pillar Blend. Thoughts? Has anyone heard any rumors? Who is holding out for the new stuff or has already switch and no plans to try. I am testing out the 6006 currently and have been happy with how the candle looks and am working with Zinc wicks and have been getting good results... So not sure if I want to try... I like the thought of not having to put as much FO in them... So why would I want to switch back? Steve

The closest is TheCandleMakersStore. They carry most of the main waxes. I typically will place a big order and drive up and pick them up. We're pretty centrally located. I even contacted GB brand because the plant is 1/2 an hour from us. Minimum case order is 15,000. If everyone wants to go in together? Ha ha....

Nickie, Here is what I've found so far with the 6006 vs. the 464. I made some 6006 candles with various wicks on Friday. I did some variations based on another post I saw on here. I still have to do more testing but here is what I've found so far... The 6006 blended with 15% 464 has done the best so far for me. We also used zinc wicks. I did a 44-24-18 in a 12 oz. Mason jar. The flame was just a very nice burn. It needs to be wicked upon one more (I'm still learning the sizing for Zinc Wicks so Not sure if the next size is a 44-48-18 or 44-32-18). My zinc sample back from a few years back only had the 44-24-18 in it. The burn was all the way across but it was a slushy burn. Not solid 1/4" burn pool. And it smelled great. So I can only imagine if I can get a nicer burn pool how it will throw. I did go back and retest my 464 candles with the Premier wicks from Aztec and they were great as well. Nice burn and great throw. So we will see.